SLS - are any being clocked?
Discussion
There's a thread going on in the FMLB forum where it's claimed that more 458's have been clocked by these mileage adjustment outfits, than cars registered in the UK.
This has got me thinking, being as the sls is supposed to be an everyday car, how many people are racking up big miles in relation to the number of very low mileage cars currently advertised for sale?
As a potential buyer of an sls, is there any way of checking what the genuine mileage of a car is?
This has got me thinking, being as the sls is supposed to be an everyday car, how many people are racking up big miles in relation to the number of very low mileage cars currently advertised for sale?
As a potential buyer of an sls, is there any way of checking what the genuine mileage of a car is?
I have no info on SLS but clocking cars has been going on for 50 years now and when dashboards went digital it increased massively.
You only have to look at Porsche 997's to see how widespread it is.
Bucket loads of 7 and 8 years old cars with 25,35,45K miles and very occasionally one with over 100K.
Go back to 2007 and the mileages were much the same so lots of these cars haven't turned a wheel in 6 years now. Check Aston V8 Vantages and manual F430's too.
Main dealer "Inspections" very very rarely, if ever, come up with mileage discrepancies and this is because they can be changed without trace or is it because manufacturers dont want to get involved and so just ignore tell tale signs. Imagine having a 1 year old SLS or 458 blacklisted by its manufacturer as a clocked car.
Never happened as far as i know.
I bumped in to one of these guys at a main dealers a couple of years ago where he was actually doing legitimate work on Audi's that had somehow had their displays disturbed and he was returning them to the correct settings. I got chatting and he said at the end of the summer he would literally have a que of Ferraris being taken back to 3000 miles. He even bragged about an Enzo he has "Corrected".
Buying from a main dealer does not mean your not buying a clocked car. Always check for signs of tampering or odd wear levels to trim, tyres etc.
You only have to look at Porsche 997's to see how widespread it is.
Bucket loads of 7 and 8 years old cars with 25,35,45K miles and very occasionally one with over 100K.
Go back to 2007 and the mileages were much the same so lots of these cars haven't turned a wheel in 6 years now. Check Aston V8 Vantages and manual F430's too.
Main dealer "Inspections" very very rarely, if ever, come up with mileage discrepancies and this is because they can be changed without trace or is it because manufacturers dont want to get involved and so just ignore tell tale signs. Imagine having a 1 year old SLS or 458 blacklisted by its manufacturer as a clocked car.
Never happened as far as i know.
I bumped in to one of these guys at a main dealers a couple of years ago where he was actually doing legitimate work on Audi's that had somehow had their displays disturbed and he was returning them to the correct settings. I got chatting and he said at the end of the summer he would literally have a que of Ferraris being taken back to 3000 miles. He even bragged about an Enzo he has "Corrected".
Buying from a main dealer does not mean your not buying a clocked car. Always check for signs of tampering or odd wear levels to trim, tyres etc.
Edited by giggle on Sunday 2nd June 12:22
giggle said:
I have no info on SLS but clocking cars has been going on for 50 years now and when dashboards went digital it increased massively.
You only have to look at Porsche 997's to see how widespread it is.
Bucket loads of 7 and 8 years old cars with 25,35,45K miles and very occasionally one with over 100K.
Go back to 2007 and the mileages were much the same so lots of these cars haven't turned a wheel in 6 years now. Check Aston V8 Vantages and manual F430's too.
Main dealer "Inspections" very very rarely, if ever, come up with mileage discrepancies and this is because they can be changed without trace or is it because manufacturers dont want to get involved and so just ignore tell tale signs. Imagine having a 1 year old SLS or 458 blacklisted by its manufacturer as a clocked car.
Never happened as far as i know.
I bumped in to one of these guys at a main dealers a couple of years ago where he was actually doing legitimate work on Audi's that had somehow had their displays disturbed and he was returning them to the correct settings. I got chatting and he said at the end of the summer he would literally have a que of Ferraris being taken back to 3000 miles. He even bragged about an Enzo he has "Corrected".
Buying from a main dealer does not mean your not buying a clocked car. Always check for signs of tampering or odd wear levels to trim, tyres etc.
I didn't realise that the clocking of sports and super cars is apparently so rife.You only have to look at Porsche 997's to see how widespread it is.
Bucket loads of 7 and 8 years old cars with 25,35,45K miles and very occasionally one with over 100K.
Go back to 2007 and the mileages were much the same so lots of these cars haven't turned a wheel in 6 years now. Check Aston V8 Vantages and manual F430's too.
Main dealer "Inspections" very very rarely, if ever, come up with mileage discrepancies and this is because they can be changed without trace or is it because manufacturers dont want to get involved and so just ignore tell tale signs. Imagine having a 1 year old SLS or 458 blacklisted by its manufacturer as a clocked car.
Never happened as far as i know.
I bumped in to one of these guys at a main dealers a couple of years ago where he was actually doing legitimate work on Audi's that had somehow had their displays disturbed and he was returning them to the correct settings. I got chatting and he said at the end of the summer he would literally have a que of Ferraris being taken back to 3000 miles. He even bragged about an Enzo he has "Corrected".
Buying from a main dealer does not mean your not buying a clocked car. Always check for signs of tampering or odd wear levels to trim, tyres etc.
Edited by giggle on Sunday 2nd June 12:22
In the case of the sls, does the mileage get recorded in more than one place and if so would the adjuster be able to access all of these locations, or just where the displayed figure is stored?
If the mileage gets adjusted before each service/mot and the tyres/brakes replaced, how is one supposed to know?
Ballistic said:
Why did you think it was clocked and what was wrong with it?
It was an E46 320 and it broke down literally on a weekly basis. My mechanic said the problems I was having were the type he would expect after 150,000 - 200,000 miles and not 60,000!
After I sold it on I was contacted by an anti clocking govt department asking mileage related questions.
The next owner was obviously suspicious too.
MURRAY007 said:
Afternoon,
as some of you are aware that if you buy a clocked Merc, and have short test print out's it shows the mileage (clocked),
BUT if you can get access to the SRS log, this shows the actual mileage (non-clocked)
hope this helps anyone buying a car.
Thanks Murray - how does one get access to the SLS log?as some of you are aware that if you buy a clocked Merc, and have short test print out's it shows the mileage (clocked),
BUT if you can get access to the SRS log, this shows the actual mileage (non-clocked)
hope this helps anyone buying a car.
MURRAY007 said:
Afternoon,
as some of you are aware that if you buy a clocked Merc, and have short test print out's it shows the mileage (clocked),
BUT if you can get access to the SRS log, this shows the actual mileage (non-clocked)
hope this helps anyone buying a car.
So youve obviously seen this... what happens next?as some of you are aware that if you buy a clocked Merc, and have short test print out's it shows the mileage (clocked),
BUT if you can get access to the SRS log, this shows the actual mileage (non-clocked)
hope this helps anyone buying a car.
Do Mercedes get involved? is anything said to customer?
are warranties void? are mileages reset to correct?
Etc etc
I suppose it doesn’t help when car have longer service intervals.
I suppose with the old style mechanical adjustment it’s more visible if it had been tampered with now’s its all-digital. Its very worrying that 6 figure cars are being clocked back like this, I think tighter laws and penalties need to be brought in.
A few years back I bought a little run around for year and put on about 9K came to sell it and the next owner went to trading standards saying it had been clocked as he went online and dug out old MOT certificates with mileage being turned back almost 40K!
In the end after alot of calls and letters the matter was rested as it had been done a few years back before I owed the car, but if im honest the car was very clean and had majority of its service history in tact and it would have been hard to detect. Lesson learnt check online for previous mot’s if they are missing!
I suppose with the old style mechanical adjustment it’s more visible if it had been tampered with now’s its all-digital. Its very worrying that 6 figure cars are being clocked back like this, I think tighter laws and penalties need to be brought in.
A few years back I bought a little run around for year and put on about 9K came to sell it and the next owner went to trading standards saying it had been clocked as he went online and dug out old MOT certificates with mileage being turned back almost 40K!
In the end after alot of calls and letters the matter was rested as it had been done a few years back before I owed the car, but if im honest the car was very clean and had majority of its service history in tact and it would have been hard to detect. Lesson learnt check online for previous mot’s if they are missing!
As a motor trader of some 40 years, for me it is usually pretty obvious if a car has been clocked.
However looking at a 1 year old car that has done 10k reduced to 5k not so easy.
30k to 5k would be a little more apparent.
To be sure in yourself you need to look as as many low millage Merc's as possible you will soon get a feeling for the ones which are 'right'.
Wear on brake peddles and seats etc will not have started on this sort of car, more telling is chipping, a mass of fine peppery chips to front and leading edge of wheel arches is a sure sign of high millage, so as you see more cars you will know what is reasonable for the odometer reading.
Always check with Merc service as the millage is recorded when the car is seen for any reason.
And when you find your ideal SLS bring it to VMax for some exercise.
Mark
However looking at a 1 year old car that has done 10k reduced to 5k not so easy.
30k to 5k would be a little more apparent.
To be sure in yourself you need to look as as many low millage Merc's as possible you will soon get a feeling for the ones which are 'right'.
Wear on brake peddles and seats etc will not have started on this sort of car, more telling is chipping, a mass of fine peppery chips to front and leading edge of wheel arches is a sure sign of high millage, so as you see more cars you will know what is reasonable for the odometer reading.
Always check with Merc service as the millage is recorded when the car is seen for any reason.
And when you find your ideal SLS bring it to VMax for some exercise.
Mark
There's a few pints to mention.
Clocking a supercar from 15k to 3k will have massive implications to desirability and price. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a genuine 3k and a 15/20k one, see below.
Some genuine low mileage cars look like they've covered a lot more so separating the two is very hard. Imagine two cars - one with a careful fastidious owner and the other, unlocked, a fat b
d who couldn't give a toss. Place them together (Assuming both have the same mileage.) and you'd be hard pressed to tell which ones clocked.
Most good correctors adjust all the cars brains, EPROM, key, etc and it's not just a case of plugging it in. They have to physically unsolder parts and read them then stick it all back together. (On certain high end cars.).
A dealer (Most are franchisee's) doesn't care if a car is clocked of they report it then HQ will/may want to inspect it then they've lost any labour charges they would have charged.
Bloke down the pub told me that. See.
Clocking a supercar from 15k to 3k will have massive implications to desirability and price. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a genuine 3k and a 15/20k one, see below.
Some genuine low mileage cars look like they've covered a lot more so separating the two is very hard. Imagine two cars - one with a careful fastidious owner and the other, unlocked, a fat b
d who couldn't give a toss. Place them together (Assuming both have the same mileage.) and you'd be hard pressed to tell which ones clocked. Most good correctors adjust all the cars brains, EPROM, key, etc and it's not just a case of plugging it in. They have to physically unsolder parts and read them then stick it all back together. (On certain high end cars.).
A dealer (Most are franchisee's) doesn't care if a car is clocked of they report it then HQ will/may want to inspect it then they've lost any labour charges they would have charged.
Bloke down the pub told me that. See.
giggle said:
So youve obviously seen this... what happens next? Nothing happens unless we have to remove that part in question, to fix a different fault with the car. and No we are not allowed to remove them if we spot it. unless as stated above.
Do Mercedes get involved? is anything said to customer? we only have to tell the customer if we remove the part (to repair some fault on car) and the orignial mileage is now showing
are warranties void? are mileages reset to correct? Merc's is unlimited mileage for warranty, only comes into question if the part preventing the mileage is causing another fault with the car. Mileage are automatical reset once the part has been remove.
Do Mercedes get involved? is anything said to customer? we only have to tell the customer if we remove the part (to repair some fault on car) and the orignial mileage is now showing
are warranties void? are mileages reset to correct? Merc's is unlimited mileage for warranty, only comes into question if the part preventing the mileage is causing another fault with the car. Mileage are automatical reset once the part has been remove.
MURRAY007 said:
Afternoon,
as some of you are aware that if you buy a clocked Merc, and have short test print out's it shows the mileage (clocked),
BUT if you can get access to the SRS log, this shows the actual mileage (non-clocked)
hope this helps anyone buying a car.
Can you explain what the SRS log is, who can access it?as some of you are aware that if you buy a clocked Merc, and have short test print out's it shows the mileage (clocked),
BUT if you can get access to the SRS log, this shows the actual mileage (non-clocked)
hope this helps anyone buying a car.
I thought it is really easily these days to check against a clocked car? First is confirm the MOT via the DirectGov website - it lists the last MOT, and what the mileage was. Companies like BMW and Mercedes keep an electronic log of all services and mileages done. When I wanted to buy a second hand BMW I could ring up my local dealer and they would give me the info. My Merc doesn't have a fully stamped log book, but it was fairly easy for Merc to find all the information about where and what it had done which they printed out for me.
I would have thought 9 months in the slammer for a milage adjuster would have knocked these practices back ?
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement...
I assume they have to keep records (for HMRC) no doubt one day they will be a "leak" and a lot of embarrassed faces will result ..
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement...
I assume they have to keep records (for HMRC) no doubt one day they will be a "leak" and a lot of embarrassed faces will result ..
Very easy for some of the less reputable prestige/supercar/car-club rental outfits. You often find it's been registered in an individuals name (so you don't suspect a rental/club when it's resold) they change them @ 1yr old with a very low mileage and a fresh service.
Edited by DocArbathnot on Tuesday 13th August 12:44
On most cars, the ECU also registered the mileage covered. On some the gearbox ECU also holds this data. On others it is stored on the navigation computer. All can be accessed with the correct diagnostic tools, or in some cases, by simply pressing the correct combination of keys on the nav system display.
Anyone conducting a PPI should have that equipment and should have no excuse at all in not spotting a clocked car.
Wear on pedals and chipped paintwork can both be eradicated. For someone to "clock" all the places on (say) a Mercedes where mileage is logged is very hard to do.
And to answer someone else's question...it's down to the main dealer. Some I know will let a person know that the records show their car is clocked, others will just service it according to the interval in the book.
Of course, should you come to trade the car in to them, 100% of the dealers will be pleased to let you know your car is clocked and thus worth less money...
On a similar subject, if you have your car bodywork repaired through a main dealer, it will be on the central system which is consulted whenever a car is offered to the network for sale. No matter whether you were aware or not of whether it was repaired, its value will be adjusted accordingly...even by the dealer who may have completed the repair...so much for manufacturer-authorised repairs eh!
Anyone conducting a PPI should have that equipment and should have no excuse at all in not spotting a clocked car.
Wear on pedals and chipped paintwork can both be eradicated. For someone to "clock" all the places on (say) a Mercedes where mileage is logged is very hard to do.
And to answer someone else's question...it's down to the main dealer. Some I know will let a person know that the records show their car is clocked, others will just service it according to the interval in the book.
Of course, should you come to trade the car in to them, 100% of the dealers will be pleased to let you know your car is clocked and thus worth less money...
On a similar subject, if you have your car bodywork repaired through a main dealer, it will be on the central system which is consulted whenever a car is offered to the network for sale. No matter whether you were aware or not of whether it was repaired, its value will be adjusted accordingly...even by the dealer who may have completed the repair...so much for manufacturer-authorised repairs eh!
Its going on everywhere, a few years back we were unfortunate enough to buy a DB9 Volante, 2 years old with just 8,000 miles only to discover it was a ex-supercar hire car, that had in fact covered some 30,000 miles possibly more. This was a main agent car that in the end they took back!
dazzalse said:
Its going on everywhere, a few years back we were unfortunate enough to buy a DB9 Volante, 2 years old with just 8,000 miles only to discover it was a ex-supercar hire car, that had in fact covered some 30,000 miles possibly more. This was a main agent car that in the end they took back!
I bet the V5 didn't show a rental co either. This business model keeps RV's high. Plenty of blissfully unaware low mileage "one previous keeper" supercar owners out there.
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