My old 190 is dying
Discussion
Hello All,
My faithful commuter car, a 1990 190e 2.0 Auto that I have had for nearly 10 years is giving up the ghost. It has recently started to loose coolant and when I went to top it up and check the oil, the engine looks like someone has poured a McDonalds caramel milkshake in there. Dipstick is covered in brown milky goo too. My local mechanic says that the head gasket has gone and to replace/make good will cost me the best part of £800 - £1000
Other than the head gasket, she is in really good order, one tiny spec of rust on the front arch but otherwise in excellent condition despite her 202,000 miles.
Does it really cost that much to do a head gasket???
I'm based in Marlow/Maidenhead area if anyone knows of a reasonable mechanic or has any suggestions.
My faithful commuter car, a 1990 190e 2.0 Auto that I have had for nearly 10 years is giving up the ghost. It has recently started to loose coolant and when I went to top it up and check the oil, the engine looks like someone has poured a McDonalds caramel milkshake in there. Dipstick is covered in brown milky goo too. My local mechanic says that the head gasket has gone and to replace/make good will cost me the best part of £800 - £1000
Other than the head gasket, she is in really good order, one tiny spec of rust on the front arch but otherwise in excellent condition despite her 202,000 miles.
Does it really cost that much to do a head gasket???
I'm based in Marlow/Maidenhead area if anyone knows of a reasonable mechanic or has any suggestions.
There are three options here - only you can decide at the end of the day.
1) Get the car fixed - that cost is right if its with a good source you can trust. You have had it for long enough and know its history and what you have had done. The cost will easily match the minimum amount you will spend on the other options. I know it sounds a lot if you have never had 'big' bills but in the grand scale its still not too expensive. My old 190 which I can't bear to get rid of cost very little over 10 years - it sounds it slightly worse condition than yours but its love.
2) If its the 190 aspect you like, look for another. Either here, eBay, or various trade and specialist sources. Some are fetching over £2k, but if you are in the right place at the right time you might find something special at about £500. Hence you could end up with an upgrade of your favoured model for similar money. The downside is that you don't know the car. And time is not necessarily on your side.
Finally 3) - you may love the 190 but do you want a change. I also have an E220 (S124)- only because of the arrival of a third large dog which mean't the 190 was going to be awkward. Mine was bought cheap and unseen (yes - I know) - but the price was fair. It has had a head gasket - and other stuff - and is now where I am happy with it. It has cost the same as a good dealer car in the end, but I know what has been done in my two years of ownership.
What do you fancy - I know where there is an E250D (W124) which has sat outside a classic specialist for about a year. Looks nice, but badly marketed, and yours for about £2k with low mileage and good condition. But there is plenty of 2 ltr older stuff out there going cheap. The choice is yours.
How deep is the love affair ?
As I have been writing this the wife has been speaking to the mother in law - where my 190 is stored. Mention of possibly wanting to put her own car in the garage, and can we move the 190. Arrrgh - she never will (afraid of getting home in the dark, and goes out every night - apart from during the last week due to snow). Need to go and get a whisky to calm my nerves..... just in case she insists. My own mothers garage leaks.
1) Get the car fixed - that cost is right if its with a good source you can trust. You have had it for long enough and know its history and what you have had done. The cost will easily match the minimum amount you will spend on the other options. I know it sounds a lot if you have never had 'big' bills but in the grand scale its still not too expensive. My old 190 which I can't bear to get rid of cost very little over 10 years - it sounds it slightly worse condition than yours but its love.
2) If its the 190 aspect you like, look for another. Either here, eBay, or various trade and specialist sources. Some are fetching over £2k, but if you are in the right place at the right time you might find something special at about £500. Hence you could end up with an upgrade of your favoured model for similar money. The downside is that you don't know the car. And time is not necessarily on your side.
Finally 3) - you may love the 190 but do you want a change. I also have an E220 (S124)- only because of the arrival of a third large dog which mean't the 190 was going to be awkward. Mine was bought cheap and unseen (yes - I know) - but the price was fair. It has had a head gasket - and other stuff - and is now where I am happy with it. It has cost the same as a good dealer car in the end, but I know what has been done in my two years of ownership.
What do you fancy - I know where there is an E250D (W124) which has sat outside a classic specialist for about a year. Looks nice, but badly marketed, and yours for about £2k with low mileage and good condition. But there is plenty of 2 ltr older stuff out there going cheap. The choice is yours.
How deep is the love affair ?
As I have been writing this the wife has been speaking to the mother in law - where my 190 is stored. Mention of possibly wanting to put her own car in the garage, and can we move the 190. Arrrgh - she never will (afraid of getting home in the dark, and goes out every night - apart from during the last week due to snow). Need to go and get a whisky to calm my nerves..... just in case she insists. My own mothers garage leaks.
seems very expensive to get a headgasket changed.
Pattern gasket kit is about £28.93 :- http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Mercedes+Benz_19...
As long as the head isnt warped then allow a day for install (£250ish), if it is then it will have to be skimmed (£50-£100ish)
Antifreeze, oil etc £100
I cant see this being the fat side of £500 at worst?
Pattern gasket kit is about £28.93 :- http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Mercedes+Benz_19...
As long as the head isnt warped then allow a day for install (£250ish), if it is then it will have to be skimmed (£50-£100ish)
Antifreeze, oil etc £100
I cant see this being the fat side of £500 at worst?
in my experience its not the gasket set which causes issues, its not getting the head skimmed.
People skimp on head skimming ( so either dont bother or get it done very cheaply with cheap results), install the gasket, gasket leaks as head isnt sitting properly on it, gasket gets blamed, head goes for skimming as they are now informed that the head will DEF. be warped.
Gasket gets blamed, oem gasket installed c/w properly skimmed head (this time) head gasket fixed.
It would have been fixed the first time if the head had been skimmed.
Quite often the gaskets which euro's sell are direct from the oem anyway - you can specify, so no need to pay mercs markup in top.
People skimp on head skimming ( so either dont bother or get it done very cheaply with cheap results), install the gasket, gasket leaks as head isnt sitting properly on it, gasket gets blamed, head goes for skimming as they are now informed that the head will DEF. be warped.
Gasket gets blamed, oem gasket installed c/w properly skimmed head (this time) head gasket fixed.
It would have been fixed the first time if the head had been skimmed.
Quite often the gaskets which euro's sell are direct from the oem anyway - you can specify, so no need to pay mercs markup in top.
Worth getting a price from MB for the proper gasket as they're often fairly priced for bits like this, IMHO it's not worth skimping either as the major cost/hassle involved with this job is the labour/time involved in stripping it all down. OEM gaskets are usually made by 'Goetz' IIRC, you *might* find an OE gasket slightly cheaper, but consider the proper MB one if you can. Worth noting that the original MB one lasted 200k.
MB heads are normally quite good and it's unusual to find one that needs skimming. Check it with a straight edge first.
I appreciate that the weather is against you currently, but it's not really that bad a job for the DIY mechanic - nice simple engine to work on, only a 4-cylinder 8 valve, one cam to time up, plenty of space in the engine bay. Only tools that I can think you'd need to borrow outside of a typical tool kit would be a torque wrench, 12mm tri-square socket and perhaps a large socket for the tensioner.
Seems a shame to part company with it after such a long and faithful ownership - although I have to agree that at 202K miles it doesn't make sense to spend £1k on a repair. Plenty of 120-150k clean 190Es out there for that money or less.
As a DIY proposition (do you know any car-savvy friends?) you could probably have this fixed for less than £200. A cheaper garage might repair it for around £500 but you'd need to tread carefully to ensure that they do a good job of course.
Best of luck,
Will
MB heads are normally quite good and it's unusual to find one that needs skimming. Check it with a straight edge first.
I appreciate that the weather is against you currently, but it's not really that bad a job for the DIY mechanic - nice simple engine to work on, only a 4-cylinder 8 valve, one cam to time up, plenty of space in the engine bay. Only tools that I can think you'd need to borrow outside of a typical tool kit would be a torque wrench, 12mm tri-square socket and perhaps a large socket for the tensioner.
Seems a shame to part company with it after such a long and faithful ownership - although I have to agree that at 202K miles it doesn't make sense to spend £1k on a repair. Plenty of 120-150k clean 190Es out there for that money or less.
As a DIY proposition (do you know any car-savvy friends?) you could probably have this fixed for less than £200. A cheaper garage might repair it for around £500 but you'd need to tread carefully to ensure that they do a good job of course.
Best of luck,
Will
Thank you all for your suggestions and recommendations. I think that Wills comment,
"Seems a shame to part company with it after such a long and faithful ownership - although I have to agree that at 202K miles it doesn't make sense to spend £1k on a repair. Plenty of 120-150k clean 190Es out there for that money or less." sums my thoughts up well.
I can spend £500-£1000 plus on the car but its still a high mileage 20 year old car and its only a matter of time before it will need additional work. I hate the thought of it being squashed at a scrap yard but I dont have the space to put it into hibernation whilst deciding. It probably makes sense to use of the scrappage deal and get myself a couple of thousand pounds off a new runaround. The lure of a Fiat 500 Abarth is strong!
Using my CL500 in the mean time but its not the most frugal of things to commute in!
"Seems a shame to part company with it after such a long and faithful ownership - although I have to agree that at 202K miles it doesn't make sense to spend £1k on a repair. Plenty of 120-150k clean 190Es out there for that money or less." sums my thoughts up well.
I can spend £500-£1000 plus on the car but its still a high mileage 20 year old car and its only a matter of time before it will need additional work. I hate the thought of it being squashed at a scrap yard but I dont have the space to put it into hibernation whilst deciding. It probably makes sense to use of the scrappage deal and get myself a couple of thousand pounds off a new runaround. The lure of a Fiat 500 Abarth is strong!
Using my CL500 in the mean time but its not the most frugal of things to commute in!
There are lots of 190's breaking over on Mercedes190.co.uk , besides at least around Glasgow , I can go into almost any breakers and find one or two .
You are at the stage where it would actually be cheaper and simpler just to buy another engine ( I'd expect to pay no more than £150 for a secondhand engine - often they can be seen running before taking them from the donor car ) and , compared to CHG replacement , a relatively easy weekend's work to swap it over for your old engine - if yours is a manual , do the clutch at the same time , unless it has been done recently . All you need apart from the usual spanners etc is to hire an engine hoist from somewhere like HSS - if you have the Haynes manual it shows engine removal in a step-by-step guide - if you don't most branches of Halfords keep it . An engine swap is NOT a difficult job .
If you want a little more power , look for a W124 230E/TE/CE - the 2.3 litre version of the M102 engine fits straight in and , to look at it , you'd never know as the two units look identical - just make sure you get the plug-in ECU's along with the 'new' engine and swap them over for your old ones as well .
Good luck .
You are at the stage where it would actually be cheaper and simpler just to buy another engine ( I'd expect to pay no more than £150 for a secondhand engine - often they can be seen running before taking them from the donor car ) and , compared to CHG replacement , a relatively easy weekend's work to swap it over for your old engine - if yours is a manual , do the clutch at the same time , unless it has been done recently . All you need apart from the usual spanners etc is to hire an engine hoist from somewhere like HSS - if you have the Haynes manual it shows engine removal in a step-by-step guide - if you don't most branches of Halfords keep it . An engine swap is NOT a difficult job .
If you want a little more power , look for a W124 230E/TE/CE - the 2.3 litre version of the M102 engine fits straight in and , to look at it , you'd never know as the two units look identical - just make sure you get the plug-in ECU's along with the 'new' engine and swap them over for your old ones as well .
Good luck .
Pontoneer said:
There are lots of 190's breaking over on Mercedes190.co.uk , besides at least around Glasgow , I can go into almost any breakers and find one or two .
You are at the stage where it would actually be cheaper and simpler just to buy another engine ( I'd expect to pay no more than £150 for a secondhand engine - often they can be seen running before taking them from the donor car ) and , compared to CHG replacement , a relatively easy weekend's work to swap it over for your old engine - if yours is a manual , do the clutch at the same time , unless it has been done recently . All you need apart from the usual spanners etc is to hire an engine hoist from somewhere like HSS - if you have the Haynes manual it shows engine removal in a step-by-step guide - if you don't most branches of Halfords keep it . An engine swap is NOT a difficult job .
If you want a little more power , look for a W124 230E/TE/CE - the 2.3 litre version of the M102 engine fits straight in and , to look at it , you'd never know as the two units look identical - just make sure you get the plug-in ECU's along with the 'new' engine and swap them over for your old ones as well .
Good luck .
I concur. Good advice Derek.You are at the stage where it would actually be cheaper and simpler just to buy another engine ( I'd expect to pay no more than £150 for a secondhand engine - often they can be seen running before taking them from the donor car ) and , compared to CHG replacement , a relatively easy weekend's work to swap it over for your old engine - if yours is a manual , do the clutch at the same time , unless it has been done recently . All you need apart from the usual spanners etc is to hire an engine hoist from somewhere like HSS - if you have the Haynes manual it shows engine removal in a step-by-step guide - if you don't most branches of Halfords keep it . An engine swap is NOT a difficult job .
If you want a little more power , look for a W124 230E/TE/CE - the 2.3 litre version of the M102 engine fits straight in and , to look at it , you'd never know as the two units look identical - just make sure you get the plug-in ECU's along with the 'new' engine and swap them over for your old ones as well .
Good luck .
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff