CL63 & E63 AMG Deals & depreciation etc
Discussion
Morning All,
Need some help/guidance on a decision that I’ve been trying to make for the past couple of months.
I’m looking to spend up to a max of £55k and my preferred choices are the E63 (09 onwards shape) and the CL63.
CL63 – appears that the prices are coming down pretty quickly, assume this has a lot to do with the new model coming out next year, does anyone think that in the approach to Christmas dealers will be looking to hit some difficult targets and some good discounts will be available, I was hoping to aim for a 57 or 08 (preferably) plate with 20k mileage approx?
What sort of discounts do you think they would be prepared to do in the winter months?
My other concern is however good the deal you get on the existing shape, will residuals take a big hit when the next model is released, I’ll probably keep this car 12 months approx?
E63 – test driven and love it, although would probably prefer the CL.
See the occasional one coming in around the £60k mark on a 59 plate, does anyone think before the year is out a target of £55k is achievable, and again residuals are of concern with this as they seem to lose money rapidly, although no new models for next year so that should help.
Any input, thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Paul
Need some help/guidance on a decision that I’ve been trying to make for the past couple of months.
I’m looking to spend up to a max of £55k and my preferred choices are the E63 (09 onwards shape) and the CL63.
CL63 – appears that the prices are coming down pretty quickly, assume this has a lot to do with the new model coming out next year, does anyone think that in the approach to Christmas dealers will be looking to hit some difficult targets and some good discounts will be available, I was hoping to aim for a 57 or 08 (preferably) plate with 20k mileage approx?
What sort of discounts do you think they would be prepared to do in the winter months?
My other concern is however good the deal you get on the existing shape, will residuals take a big hit when the next model is released, I’ll probably keep this car 12 months approx?
E63 – test driven and love it, although would probably prefer the CL.
See the occasional one coming in around the £60k mark on a 59 plate, does anyone think before the year is out a target of £55k is achievable, and again residuals are of concern with this as they seem to lose money rapidly, although no new models for next year so that should help.
Any input, thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Paul
You seem fairly clued up on the market already and your observations certainly match my own. I think there are a few significant points:
1. Pretty much any £55k late-model car (i.e. not a proven classic) has a lot of depreciating still to do. You could lose.... £55k.
2. These particular cars are very vulnerable to depreciation. The market for £40k to £60k cars is small: not many people have the cash for it. The market for £40k to £60k used cars is even smaller: not many people have the cash for the purchase, they don't have the cash for the repairs, and the cars have lost the glitzy newness that made them so very desirable in the first place. It is not like they are Ferrari 360s which have hit the bottom of the curve.
3. The CL-Class models have historically depreciated pretty rapidly and without any apparent slowing down. Depreciation will be rapidly accelerated by a new model. So good C215s can be had for £12k, bad ones for £7k; good C140s can be had for £5k, bad ones are scrap money.
4. Dealers in these cars are going to be working on fat margins because of the small demand for them. They can't risk tying up £50k in stock that might sit around for three to six months (there are plenty of C215 CL55 AMG cars adevertised in the Classifieds section of this site that seem to have been there forever) unless there is plenty of margin. So the spread is going to be wide. You may think this means you can negotiate a discount now (see below), but it also means you're going to be disappointed with what it's worth when it comes to time to sell next year.
5. An E63 AMG or a CL63 AMG is almost certain to cost you £12k-plus in depreciation over the next year.
6. The availability of cheap credit is going to get even worse--and all of these cars are bought on tick these days.
7. A discount does not bode well for future values. A £55k car that is discounted to £50k is really just a £50k car that was over-priced.
This is not meant rudely. However, if you're worried about the depreciation, you have to ask yourself whether you can really afford the car. We can all afford the payments, but can we afford the negative equity when the car is worth less than the outstanding finance (as is almost always the case after a mere 12months)?
I am of course a bit of pessimistic doom-monger but, right now, I wouldn't be piling £50k into any car unless I had money to burn. And sadly I haven't.
1. Pretty much any £55k late-model car (i.e. not a proven classic) has a lot of depreciating still to do. You could lose.... £55k.
2. These particular cars are very vulnerable to depreciation. The market for £40k to £60k cars is small: not many people have the cash for it. The market for £40k to £60k used cars is even smaller: not many people have the cash for the purchase, they don't have the cash for the repairs, and the cars have lost the glitzy newness that made them so very desirable in the first place. It is not like they are Ferrari 360s which have hit the bottom of the curve.
3. The CL-Class models have historically depreciated pretty rapidly and without any apparent slowing down. Depreciation will be rapidly accelerated by a new model. So good C215s can be had for £12k, bad ones for £7k; good C140s can be had for £5k, bad ones are scrap money.
4. Dealers in these cars are going to be working on fat margins because of the small demand for them. They can't risk tying up £50k in stock that might sit around for three to six months (there are plenty of C215 CL55 AMG cars adevertised in the Classifieds section of this site that seem to have been there forever) unless there is plenty of margin. So the spread is going to be wide. You may think this means you can negotiate a discount now (see below), but it also means you're going to be disappointed with what it's worth when it comes to time to sell next year.
5. An E63 AMG or a CL63 AMG is almost certain to cost you £12k-plus in depreciation over the next year.
6. The availability of cheap credit is going to get even worse--and all of these cars are bought on tick these days.
7. A discount does not bode well for future values. A £55k car that is discounted to £50k is really just a £50k car that was over-priced.
This is not meant rudely. However, if you're worried about the depreciation, you have to ask yourself whether you can really afford the car. We can all afford the payments, but can we afford the negative equity when the car is worth less than the outstanding finance (as is almost always the case after a mere 12months)?
I am of course a bit of pessimistic doom-monger but, right now, I wouldn't be piling £50k into any car unless I had money to burn. And sadly I haven't.
Edited by r129sl on Thursday 18th November 13:55
r129sl said:
You seem fairly clued up on the market already and your observations certainly match my own. I think there are a few significant points:
1. Pretty much any £55k late-model car (i.e. not a proven classic) has a lot of depreciating still to do. You could lose.... £55k.
2. These particular cars are very vulnerable to depreciation. The market for £40k to £60k cars is small: not many people have the cash for it. The market for £40k to £60k used cars is even smaller: not many people have the cash for the purchase, they don't have the cash for the repairs, and the cars have lost the glitzy newness that made them so very desirable in the first place. It is not like they are Ferrari 360s which have hit the bottom of the curve.
3. The CL-Class models have historically depreciated pretty rapidly and without any apparent slowing down. Depreciation will be rapidly accelerated by a new model. So good C215s can be had for £12k, bad ones for £7k; good C140s can be had for £5k, bad ones are scrap money.
4. Dealers in these cars are going to be working on fat margins because of the small demand for them. They can't risk tying up £50k in stock that might sit around for three to six months (there are plenty of C215 CL55 AMG cars adevertised in the Classifieds section of this site that seem to have been there forever) unless there is plenty of margin. So the spread is going to be wide. You may think this means you can negotiate a discount now (see below), but it also means you're going to be disappointed with what it's worth when it comes to time to sell next year.
5. An E63 AMG or a CL63 AMG is almost certain to cost you £12k-plus in depreciation over the next year.
6. The availability of cheap credit is going to get even worse--and all of these cars are bought on tick these days.
7. A discount does not bode well for future values. A £55k car that is discounted to £50k is really just a £50k car that was over-priced.
This is not meant rudely. However, if you're worried about the depreciation, you have to ask yourself whether you can really afford the car. We can all afford the payments, but can we afford the negative equity when the car is worth less than the outstanding finance (as is almost always the case after a mere 12months)?
I am of course a bit of pessimistic doom-monger but, right now, I wouldn't be piling £50k into any car unless I had money to burn. And sadly I haven't.
Cheers r129sl,1. Pretty much any £55k late-model car (i.e. not a proven classic) has a lot of depreciating still to do. You could lose.... £55k.
2. These particular cars are very vulnerable to depreciation. The market for £40k to £60k cars is small: not many people have the cash for it. The market for £40k to £60k used cars is even smaller: not many people have the cash for the purchase, they don't have the cash for the repairs, and the cars have lost the glitzy newness that made them so very desirable in the first place. It is not like they are Ferrari 360s which have hit the bottom of the curve.
3. The CL-Class models have historically depreciated pretty rapidly and without any apparent slowing down. Depreciation will be rapidly accelerated by a new model. So good C215s can be had for £12k, bad ones for £7k; good C140s can be had for £5k, bad ones are scrap money.
4. Dealers in these cars are going to be working on fat margins because of the small demand for them. They can't risk tying up £50k in stock that might sit around for three to six months (there are plenty of C215 CL55 AMG cars adevertised in the Classifieds section of this site that seem to have been there forever) unless there is plenty of margin. So the spread is going to be wide. You may think this means you can negotiate a discount now (see below), but it also means you're going to be disappointed with what it's worth when it comes to time to sell next year.
5. An E63 AMG or a CL63 AMG is almost certain to cost you £12k-plus in depreciation over the next year.
6. The availability of cheap credit is going to get even worse--and all of these cars are bought on tick these days.
7. A discount does not bode well for future values. A £55k car that is discounted to £50k is really just a £50k car that was over-priced.
This is not meant rudely. However, if you're worried about the depreciation, you have to ask yourself whether you can really afford the car. We can all afford the payments, but can we afford the negative equity when the car is worth less than the outstanding finance (as is almost always the case after a mere 12months)?
I am of course a bit of pessimistic doom-monger but, right now, I wouldn't be piling £50k into any car unless I had money to burn. And sadly I haven't.
Edited by r129sl on Thursday 18th November 13:55
Appreciate your feedback, you certainly know your subject.
You make some very good points which I’ll take into consideration.
My main aim on the cost side of things is obviously to do a deal which will see me lose as little as possible over the next 12 months.
The price of CL's seems to vary massively by as much as £10k on near identical models, so I’d hope that if a good deal can be done at this stage, a loss of £10k or less may be achievable over a 12 month period.
Having lost IRO £15-£20k over 3 years ownership on a 335DM Sport, those figures don’t seem too bad, but you never know what these CL's are actually selling for.
I think my main concern is the model change next year, and who knows how this will effect prices of current models, as you say I think if I make the purchase I need to be prepared for some pretty big loss, it just depends if the ownership makes it worthwhile, credit isn’t an issue as I can make a cash purchase, hopefully this can improve my chances of a good deal with the dealers.
I do wonder if they are more likely to make a good discount available in the run up to Xmas?
I suspect very good discounts will be there in the run up to Christmas for those in a position to buy, whether on finance or for cash (and salemen often prefer finance because they get a kick back if you run it through them). Certainly there is unlikely to be a better time of year to buy: the salesman wants his bonus just like the rest of us.
I was amazed by how cheaply you could get a previous model E63 within a year of their debut: back in late-2008 I looked at a E63 AMG estate at Edinburgh's main dealer (Western) for a mere £32k and there was more to come off it. Either car would be an absolute corker. But the saloon would be the better buy from a financial point of view, I'm pretty sure of that: cheaper in the first place, a fresher model, less prone to stone-like depreciation. But the coupe pulls the heart strings a bit harder for me. Maybe get both?
I was amazed by how cheaply you could get a previous model E63 within a year of their debut: back in late-2008 I looked at a E63 AMG estate at Edinburgh's main dealer (Western) for a mere £32k and there was more to come off it. Either car would be an absolute corker. But the saloon would be the better buy from a financial point of view, I'm pretty sure of that: cheaper in the first place, a fresher model, less prone to stone-like depreciation. But the coupe pulls the heart strings a bit harder for me. Maybe get both?
you might be surprised when it comes to getting big discounts off dealers at the moment for the simple reason that there is not enough stock about of either car in the dealer network.
they were knocking loads of money off e63amgs when they first came 2 market but all that stock is gone.
the cl63 is only getting a facelift with a new engine and will be order only so supply will be very limited and lead times will be long.the new model cl will be at least 2012.
used prices of the cl will stay about 50k for the simple reason because there isnt enough stock and also they were 120k new so they can not lose much more than 70k after 3years.
then you also have the vat going up in jan so people will try to buy before the new year.
they were knocking loads of money off e63amgs when they first came 2 market but all that stock is gone.
the cl63 is only getting a facelift with a new engine and will be order only so supply will be very limited and lead times will be long.the new model cl will be at least 2012.
used prices of the cl will stay about 50k for the simple reason because there isnt enough stock and also they were 120k new so they can not lose much more than 70k after 3years.
then you also have the vat going up in jan so people will try to buy before the new year.
Thanks guys, appreciate all the feedback, interesting to get various view points.
I am looking at auctions on a daily basis but seeing nothing coming through at the moment, definitely an option I’m happy to consider.
Thanks AMG Master, some interesting points, I hadn’t considered the VAT situation, is it a big factor on second hand, I thought they only charged VAT on profit, but I guess if they hitting targets on new car sales then they will not need to discount desperately on used.
One question I have is when you say only facelift and new engine, is this not pretty much an entire change of model?
Thanks again guys.
I am looking at auctions on a daily basis but seeing nothing coming through at the moment, definitely an option I’m happy to consider.
Thanks AMG Master, some interesting points, I hadn’t considered the VAT situation, is it a big factor on second hand, I thought they only charged VAT on profit, but I guess if they hitting targets on new car sales then they will not need to discount desperately on used.
One question I have is when you say only facelift and new engine, is this not pretty much an entire change of model?
Thanks again guys.
Its a buyers market to take advantage off.
Personally I would be looking elsewhere to that of dealers if I were looking to purchase a vehicle that was a year or two old. Its not just dealers who need to sell motors at the present with the financial climate as it is the, private seller is looking to sell.
I would be looking at the likes of autotrader for a bargain.
However, whenever a new model comes out there is often a bargain to be had but that would more than likely be a month or two before the new model goes on sale. I once purchases a A3 on a 53 plate when a new model came out and saved 5K on the price whilst they also fully loaded the vehicle with every extra that could be given. Maybe, worth waiting a while
Personally I would be looking elsewhere to that of dealers if I were looking to purchase a vehicle that was a year or two old. Its not just dealers who need to sell motors at the present with the financial climate as it is the, private seller is looking to sell.
I would be looking at the likes of autotrader for a bargain.
However, whenever a new model comes out there is often a bargain to be had but that would more than likely be a month or two before the new model goes on sale. I once purchases a A3 on a 53 plate when a new model came out and saved 5K on the price whilst they also fully loaded the vehicle with every extra that could be given. Maybe, worth waiting a while
GuildfordPaul said:
Thanks guys, appreciate all the feedback, interesting to get various view points.
I am looking at auctions on a daily basis but seeing nothing coming through at the moment, definitely an option I’m happy to consider.
Thanks AMG Master, some interesting points, I hadn’t considered the VAT situation, is it a big factor on second hand, I thought they only charged VAT on profit, but I guess if they hitting targets on new car sales then they will not need to discount desperately on used.
One question I have is when you say only facelift and new engine, is this not pretty much an entire change of model?
Thanks again guys.
the shape of the cl is exactly the same what they have done is changed the lights on the front and given it some leds and they have put slight domes on the bonnet, the engine is the new twin turbo that has just been released. mercedes cycle usually last 7years so if that is anything to go by then you wont see a new model till 2012-2013.I am looking at auctions on a daily basis but seeing nothing coming through at the moment, definitely an option I’m happy to consider.
Thanks AMG Master, some interesting points, I hadn’t considered the VAT situation, is it a big factor on second hand, I thought they only charged VAT on profit, but I guess if they hitting targets on new car sales then they will not need to discount desperately on used.
One question I have is when you say only facelift and new engine, is this not pretty much an entire change of model?
Thanks again guys.
if you remember the e class 211 with the frog eyes and now look at the 212 new e class that is a complete new car. new shape everything.
the vat is not a big factor on used cars but if the price of a new car goes up by 2.5% then used prices will also have some rise in price.
Discussing the CL and what comes up on pistonheads classified's
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2233733.htm
A beast albeit now 6 years old
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2233733.htm
A beast albeit now 6 years old
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