Great Italian car thread

[Fantuzzi]

iva cosworth said:

I spoke to a British family in Brescia on Thursday who went to Villa d'Este once when it rained.

All the cars were covered up.

That would be rather annoying to say the least!

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

I think its disappointing todays turbos in f1 sound so bad. Ive been watching some classic f1 races recently on sky and the 1.5 ltr turbos they ran back then sounded great. TO add to your Ferrari theme, heres a vid of some...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAriYU6rhM

Yeah the 1.5s sounded ace. Even when you compare them to the sonorous ('that means it sounds good'-Chris Harris) v12s of the 90s.

Senna and v12s? F1 fans were lucky in the early 90s. Very lucky.

On the subject of engine notes, of modern road cars the Carerra GT and the LFA seem to be ticking some major high pitched boxes at the moment, really sweet sounding.

How's the Abarth?

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

Ive been watching a lot of classic F1, the early 80's were very entertaining. Lots of power but hardly any downforce. Lots of sliding and wheel spin! Plus they had several different engines on the grid at once, V6 Turbo's, N/A V8s and V12s.

On the subject of road car sounds i think the GT3 sounds rather nice revving all the way to 8500RPM

The Abarth is doing well. Having been sat still for 3 months it developed some problems. A coolant leak and power steering warning light to be precise. I asked my mate to disconnect and reconnect the battery while i was away which solved the warning light. The coolant leak has proved a mystery though. It was definitely leaking as i saw the drip tray and contents, but when i took it for its MOT the garage were unable to find a leak at all. Since then its been fine.

Getting back in the car and driving it after so long was fantastic, it felt like the first day i drove it. Its had a bit of TLC in the form of machine polish and wax courtesy of myself too. It will be getting a Piper Cross air filter fitted when its serviced in a few weeks.

Ill be taking it to the Cholmeley Pageant of Power and Silverstone Classic this year with the owners club. Maybe ill see you there?

Hows the MR2 doing?

Ah that's weird about the coolant leak.

MR2 have me a scare, warning light and seriously low oil made me think pre cat problems (means new engine...) but turned out to be just an o2 sensor gone.

I might be at Silverstone, not sure though, think I need to get to Goodwood this year so will have to allocate funds. Silverstone was pretty awesome last year though, if tickets are cheap Ill be there!

I really want to see the group C Lancia's now, and I'm hoping the 33/2 that ran last year has got more competitive/ louder - you could barely hear it over the Fords and Corvettes, oh and those bloody Abarths...

I think its a smart move by FIAT making the MX5 cross over an Abarth, they are trying to keep the Alfa brand 'premium' so a cheapish little sports car doesn't really fit. Plus it would be nice to see Abarth expand a little from just the 500.

Hopefully they will drop the twin air 105 in it and some tax free fun will be had!

Anyone else think Alfa or Abarth should get in LMP2? I do.



That's a Honda...they sound epic.

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

Yes the Tipo 33 was driven very carefully last year, i was rather disappointed. But then again, seeing the 512s and T-70 having accidents brings home the reason why.

Silverstone was great last year, its on my birthday this year! Ive been told by a friend i need to go to Goodward, but i hear its too popular these days.

So i take it the mx5 collaboration is now officially going to be an Abarth not an Alfa? I think it makes sense for the reason given, i just hope im not tempted to buy one myself. Cant wait to see what it will look like.

Yeah I know what you mean about Goodwood, but it is meant to be epic for racing, you can see a lot apparently. But it is a bit, exclusive. Apparently you need a goodwood membership to be allowed into the 'good' paddock, with all the Sportscars, the great unwashed can only access the touring cars and the likes...takes the piss a bit. At Silverstone, I walked into a pit with 2 DBR1s, and a DP214. There is only one dp214. In the world. And the bloke said 'sure come on in'! Plus I was able to touch cars, an owner of a GT40 was rather cool about that. So it seems a bit elite for the sake of it at Goodwood.

And dressing up like an extra from Miss Marple seems a bit much...

I think most of the people racing have a pretty good ethic with racing the cars, 'if I crash, Ill rebuild it, that's what their made for'. But if you're not experienced with the car, I can see why you'd be tip toeing around! Hopefully it will be at full tilt this year. If not Ill volunteer!

I hope the designer for the Abarth spider doesn't just take the easy option and use a 500 style front facia. Lots of the mags own artist have done that, and they look really crap. Abarth have done some wicked looking sports cars, doing something that is just a 500 copy would be a real waste to show of. Once again Ill volunteer if they need a designer...

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

Fantuzzi said:

Yeah I know what you mean about Goodwood, but it is meant to be epic for racing, you can see a lot apparently. But it is a bit, exclusive. Apparently you need a goodwood membership to be allowed into the 'good' paddock, with all the Sportscars, the great unwashed can only access the touring cars and the likes...takes the piss a bit. At Silverstone, I walked into a pit with 2 DBR1s, and a DP214. There is only one dp214. In the world. And the bloke said 'sure come on in'! Plus I was able to touch cars, an owner of a GT40 was rather cool about that. So it seems a bit elite for the sake of it at Goodwood.

And dressing up like an extra from Miss Marple seems a bit much...

I think most of the people racing have a pretty good ethic with racing the cars, 'if I crash, Ill rebuild it, that's what their made for'. But if you're not experienced with the car, I can see why you'd be tip toeing around! Hopefully it will be at full tilt this year. If not Ill volunteer!

I hope the designer for the Abarth spider doesn't just take the easy option and use a 500 style front facia. Lots of the mags own artist have done that, and they look really crap. Abarth have done some wicked looking sports cars, doing something that is just a 500 copy would be a real waste to show of. Once again Ill volunteer if they need a designer...

Yeh the openness and level of access at Silverstone is what draws me to it. My parents managed to get some passes to the Goodward membership bit when they went, dad said it was amazing.

Reading the rumours online the Abarth Spider will have either the same engine the 500 has or the same engine as the 4c and a flappy paddle gearbox. Hopefully a manual will be an option as supposedly the current Abarth flappy paddle is a bit poo.

Speaking of the 4c ive entered a car competition to win one, so fingers crossed!!

I know we've discussed the 8c before but i found this.. http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/alfa-...

Looks amazing in that colour!!!

Yeah I think Goodwood needs doing this year. Need to see me some GTO's!

I thought the mx5 engine was being crossed over into the alfa/abarth? fk it, no one knows until its properly made.

Id imagine they will put the 1.4 turbo in it, its got good range from 135 -180, then perhaps use the 4c engine for a super hot version. Hopefully it will be a manual, or at least the base model will.

What competition was that for the 4c? Pretty good competition!

The 8c looks insane in that ice blue, I'm surprised they haven't had the leather changed from red to cream/black. Then it would be perfect!

I've always thought a Black 8c with a deep purple leather interior would look ace. But purple isn't so popular...

[Fantuzzi]

Good luck with the 4c!

By purple I mean a really deep, dark purple, in a black car. A really dark plum purple. Trust me, when I get Zagato to make me a one off, you'll love the interior colour. Actually, it would be purple alcantara...That would make a brilliant band name...







I found this great pics of a tipo 33/2, I think from the Targa Florio, in the black and white pics, the tipo looks amazing 'in black'.

When I buy mine, that's the colour what I'll paint it...

All Ferraris look better in black as well

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

Drove my mates type R today. I think i want a V-Tec engine in my Abarth

To be fair I don't think Carlo would like the current range of abarth engines, as nice as they are. Most of the classic Abarth engines were basically V TEC on acid, 1.3 litres, 4 cylinders and 9000rpm - makes a civic type r look like a diesel

Although the fettled fiat engines were still fairly low revving, power at 6000rpm IIRC.

Was it the face lift spaceship version, or the early models? Ive always liked the civic, bit boy racer though. Innit. I'd quite like an integra, meant to be epic fun. And are properly swift cars.

That said I've always liked the 500's packaging, everything always looks so tiny and neat.



Plus the red is a nice touch!

[Fantuzzi]

Dinkel they are some impressive action pics! The blue 200s is stunning.

Any tz2s? I see you have the TZ1 there, but I'm greedy!

I'll have to up my game next time I'm at a Silverstone or Goodwood, the pics on this thread are getting insanely good!

[Fantuzzi]

dinkel said:

Thank you Fantuzzi, maybe check my PH-profile: I've been snapping around for quite a while now. Posting picture-blogs on PH is a hobby.

I'll drop an Italian gem every now and then. These cars learn us to really enjoy life. Keep 'em coming!

I will do, I've seen some of yours before, really great shots.

I really hope to get to Vernasca silverflag, If I do any time soon, I'll try and upload some pics or maybe do a video, as the amount of brilliant cars there is insane, lots of Abarth which is a nice change.

Any more of the Abarth prototypes?

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ossCzOft8hg

You bd Jack, now I've got to find out what the car is at 5.25!

I'm guessing Abarth but cant find it.

These vids are great, the sound is awesome on the 70s cameras!

That 33/3 sounded perfect...

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

Yes im not sure either, although i thought Ferrari. I couldn't make out the logo on the bonnet, but saw a yellow badge on the back. Although having said that i don't recognise it at all, surely i would do if it was a Ferrari?

Yeah I'm starting to think it might be a chevron.

Pain in the ass obscure racers...

If I cant get it I'm going to put it up in the motorsport forum, they are insanely good at this stuff!

Did you see Villa d'este this year?

Thought you might like this, looks great from the front, bit more of a subjective thing going on from the rear and side...but its 740kg with the racing 2litre, with 220bhp. And its engine is on show at the back, which is very cool!

[Fantuzzi]

Yea I saw that, shame he doesn't really stand on the throttle, the 2litre Abarth engine sounds insane, after Silverstone I don't need to tell you that!

There is a vid of the Abarth Gallery revving up a tipo 33 stradale, once again its never going past 5000rpm, which is nothing for that sort of engine! I think the 33 might have been a rep as its rear vents look rather different than any other I've seen and looked really fresh inside.

Abarth should get hold of the 4c chassis, slap some glass fibre on it, stick the F3 engine fiat did but never used and Hey Presto!

You have a 700kg light weight with a racing engine and a 350bhp/tonne halo car!

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

Fantuzzi said:

Yea I saw that, shame he doesn't really stand on the throttle, the 2litre Abarth engine sounds insane, after Silverstone I don't need to tell you that!

There is a vid of the Abarth Gallery revving up a tipo 33 stradale, once again its never going past 5000rpm, which is nothing for that sort of engine! I think the 33 might have been a rep as its rear vents look rather different than any other I've seen and looked really fresh inside.

Abarth should get hold of the 4c chassis, slap some glass fibre on it, stick the F3 engine fiat did but never used and Hey Presto!

You have a 700kg light weight with a racing engine and a 350bhp/tonne halo car!

Yes the Abarths definitely sound at their best when being revved hard. That 4C Abarth sounds like quite a proposition! Maybe you should put the idea on a postcard and send it to Fiat? Speaking of which the first 4c's are finally on the classifieds, all being sold with a premium of course http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/alfa-...

One of the guys on the Abarth forum has a dealership and posted this vid of him driving one. Its only doing normal town driving, nothing special. But it sounds pretty dreadful to me... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaHosg5-YXA

Im not sure if it would destroy the experience for me

Its a pretty low down engine really, not the most impressive aurally sadly.

An Italian mag weighed one recently, it was 1013kgs fully wet, which is pretty heavy given the cf tub and the 'light' engine in it. My MR2 is 975 wet, so I was surprised to see it was over a tonne, even though it's a bigger machine all round. Even the fuel tank is just 40 litres, where as mine is 48. Where is this extra weight coming from Alfa! 118kgs of weight from fluids seems a lot when a 458 speciale with an 86litre tank is only 105kgs wet, and that's with a 4.5 v8!

I don't know, we need Chiti back, then we'd have some light weight Alfas!



Now that ^ was a great sounding Alfa engine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrFmRqGl8-4

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

That makes it nearly as heavy as my Abarth. Considering the gap in technology between the MR2 and the 4C its a bit disappointing. Or is it in fact a good advertisement for the MR2?

The Alfa's sound amazing! Ive been lusting after buying a classic Alfa for a while. The idiotic part of my brain is telling me to sod the house off and get one. Damn you 'tuzzi! http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/alfa-...

Yeah I think its testament to the MR2 brilliance

Definitely get one! Alfa guilia prices are on the up, so its a smart move!

Get a little 105 series, chuck the chrome, buy a momo prototipo and away you go!

Then slowly spend all your cash on Alfaholics parts!

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/car-advert/alf...

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/car-advert/alf...

Buy one and you will be king!

[Fantuzzi]

DeltonaS said:

Fantuzzi said:

An Italian mag weighed one recently, it was 1013kgs fully wet, which is pretty heavy given the cf tub and the 'light' engine in it. My MR2 is 975 wet, so I was surprised to see it was over a tonne, even though it's a bigger machine all round. Even the fuel tank is just 40 litres, where as mine is 48. Where is this extra weight coming from Alfa! 118kgs

From the radio/speakers and aircon, which are no-cost options and are not included in the 895 kg dry weight.

Sport-Auto also weighed the 4c and came to a similar weight. And they tested it against a Cayman S which weighed about 390 kg more.

Edited by DeltonaS on Sunday 8th June 02:16

True, but its still a lot more than I expected even fully loaded.

A modern elise is around 870kg-940 with a/c radio, so not exactly a great achievement given the CF tub, I thought the car would be a lot lighter than an elise. I know the a/c and radio added around 25kg (10 for radio, 15 for a/c) to the elise, so hardly a massive amount to add on to that 895 dry weight of the 4c really. So 920kf for a dry 4c then 95kgs for the fluids. Still seems a lot for a 40litre fuel tank.

For reference, the supercharged modern elise, with a radio, wet is 924kg list. So about 940 with a/c. Its trim level is the same as the 4c and the tank is the same capacity, even the engine is roughly the same, 1600 vs 1750cc.

I know it is a wide car, but I'm still surprised it isn't under a tonne with the CF tub!

[Fantuzzi]

DeltonaS said:

Don't forget that the 4c is both longer and wider, has a larger engine, bigger brakes and tire/wheel package a more substantial interior and on top of that the Elise is made out of aluminium and plastics.

I noted that it was a bigger car in my orginal post on its weight.

But just for this thread, elise - length 3824mm, width excl dr mirrors 1719mm, height 1117mm, WB 2300,

4C, 3989, 2090 with dr mirrors, 1187, 2380.

The engine is the 150cc more than the elise.

I appreciate that its a lot wider, but its not significantly longer, and the engine size is extremely close. I thought the CF would close the gap between the two regardless of size, in truth when it first came out in 2011 the car was said to have a weight less then 850kg, less than the modern 'stripped' elise at 857 kerb, which seemed to make sense given the cf tub. I was really excited to see that 850 claim as it was a properly light number given modern crash regs and the number that they were planning on selling them.

I have no idea why the body of the 4c isn't glass fibre tbh, there is no shame in it, many high end cars use GF. The same can be said on the interior, if its aimed a proper drivers who want a light car, then strip it further, its got a CF tub so its pretty to look at as it is!

I know I like my cars light, but it seems odd that they didn't go the whole way, given most people have said the car isn't exactly for wafting around in. I suppose they were weighting for the GTA to make it really light then add a big premium over the standard like most supercar manufactures have been doing (CS,Scud, special, superleggera, n420 etc).

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

soprano said:

Love this

Who wants to see a video of Jacques Lafitte driving one in a pair of casual slip on shoes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYYA2jE3Ze0

Oh I do sir, I do!

The LM just looks so fking mean. Monster of a car.

jacklewisno1 said:

Oh and Fantuzzi, i seem to recall off the top of my head that the Elise is actually 3825mm in length. But i suppose it all depends on how accurate your ruler is.

[Fantuzzi]

dinkel said:

Bertone 1750 GTV in Lavender.

That's an amazing colour.

Soft blues seem to suit Italian cars better than red to my eyes (blasphemy!)

[Fantuzzi]

dinkel said:

www.classicdriver.com > In our new monthly ‘Affordable Classics’ series, we’ll present 10 inexpensive yet desirable classic cars that would suit even the most modest of budgets. Here is June’s selection…
http://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/10-af...
I agree on the GTV and the Monte.

I used to love Classic Driver, but it seems to be just classified promotions, and articles on car culture and style. And good ones either...

I don't think they've done a proper review for ages now, which is a shame as with the stupid design change its a pain in the ass to get old of the old reviews, their was a great one on the Maserati GCS/53.

jacklewis1 said:

You utter bd. But that Abarth does look good.

This is for sale just down the road from me........ http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C487574

DO. IT.

Its a beauty.

930kg, 100ish bhp. Sounds like a no brainer!

Edited by Fantuzzi on Friday 13th June 12:53

[Fantuzzi]

dinkel said:

That's a great pic.

jacklewisno1 said:

Fantuzzi said:

DO. IT.

Its a beauty.

930kg, 100ish bhp. Sounds like a no brainer!

Edited by Fantuzzi on Friday 13th June 12:53

Well ive had a chat with dad and he shares an interest in owning a Junior. Ill need somewhere to keep a car though, i.e a garage. So we've had a look at the garden, there is room to build one or alternatively convert the shed into one. Were thinking going down the shed route. Ive got some time off soon so we'll get to work clearing it. In the meantime ill have to do some man maths to make it work. I may go down the route of a 500 or Fulvia, just to save some money. Insuring a second car when your only 22 may be rather pricey! Although dad wants a Junior and believes that it will gain more value (i believe he may be right on that one). Im justifying it to mum on the grounds that its an investment and ill see my money again, maybe even a profit. Although dad says that thats irrelevant because once i buy it i wont want to sell it (again i think he may be right). I am rather keen on owning a nice old petrol, rear wheel drive car, before green peace forces us all to drive round in cars made out of moss and powered on Squirrel piss.

You're right, value will only go one way, obviously it will depend on model and its rarity and its subjective 'value' in the car world - how well it was received basically. Shed garage sounds like a good idea, especially as you can go in on it with your dad. Also their seem to be a lot of parts for them, especially performance ones, as they are a popular classic racer, so spending some time with the car and slowly upgraded/changing part more to your liking.

You might not want to sell it, but if the value goes crazy you might find yourself in a position to make a big profit!

The 500 is a nice idea, but I wonder how much fun you will get from a non Abarth model, as cool as they are. Although I forgot to see a saw a turquoise one the other day, looked rather cool in that colour. Fulvias are a nice idea, but once again the HF are properly expensive.

Personally I'd go after a 105 series coupe unless some really stands out. They are just so pretty in the flesh, and rather a hoot to drive. Alfa from a truly brilliant age of their history. And like I said, getting it to GTA or similarly sporty spec over time wont be too tricky.

There was an evo review of a lightly modified GTA stradale by Alfaholics some years back, very little done but just removed the roll. Sounds perfect to me!

If you can, I would.

I wouldn't worry too much about Green party politics, any one with any sense will simply enforce stricter rules on new mass market cars, so twin airs for everyone!



This thread needs more internal shots.

Zonda 760RS, the reason for my blue exhaust fetish.