Rant: Is the Brera a joke?
Discussion
cunning!Older cars are the way forward if this is the future. Where will it end? 400bhp 5mpg 2 tonner's that puff to 60 in 10 seconds. It's not progress, it's utterly ridiculous. Enough of these +£30k tanks already. You can get a 166 V6 for £2k that does the exact same job!
Alfa need to make a sub 950kg hatch with 150bhp, or I'm never getting another.
Alfa need to make a sub 950kg hatch with 150bhp, or I'm never getting another.
Hello!
I fell in love with the Brera at last years FOS and went straight to the dealer the following Monday to secure one. I've had it, (a 2.4JTD SV), for a week now and I love it!
I would have loved the V6, but doing 25K a year it would have bankrupted me!
Previously I ran a GT JTD for 2 years and it was faultless, hence why I bought another Alfa. My dealer was very good, the car never let me down and I enjoyed the fact that I hardly saw another one.
Compared to the GT the step forward in quality, and how it drives is remarkable. Stepping from one to the other when I picked up the Brera was like stepping into another make of car, the improvement is that marked. Friends with BM's and Audi's have all been very impressed which you couldn't have expected with previous Alfa's.
The issue with weight and how it blunts performance is one that will keep being raised, due to the pressure on manufacturers to produce safer, roomier, better equiped cars.
The comparison with the GTV is bound to be made but although it is the replacement within Alfa's range, I don't think it is fair to compare them, as they are from different times. It would be nigh on impossible for Alfa to introduce a car the size and spec of the GTV into the current market as things have moved on so much in the 12 years since it was launched. Multiple airbags, traction and stability control systems, improved crumple zones and crash protection are all necessary to meet regulations which never exsisted when the GTV was launched. Also, (the majority of), customers expect more features to be standard on cars today; Climate control, Cruise control, parking sensors, Sat Nav, electric everything, are all deemed necessary by buyers, not to mention more space for passengers and luggage.
It is almost impossible for any manufacturer to bring a replacement car to the market that satisfies all the criteria above, and weighs the same or less than it's predecessor.
The only example's I can think of, (and I'm sure there are more), are the TT and the MX5, both making extensive use of aluminium to acheive this.
It's disappointing that Alfa didn't follow this route with the Brera, or the 159, but they are not the only manufacturers guilty of letting the pounds pile on!
That's my rant over with anyway!
I fell in love with the Brera at last years FOS and went straight to the dealer the following Monday to secure one. I've had it, (a 2.4JTD SV), for a week now and I love it!
I would have loved the V6, but doing 25K a year it would have bankrupted me!
Previously I ran a GT JTD for 2 years and it was faultless, hence why I bought another Alfa. My dealer was very good, the car never let me down and I enjoyed the fact that I hardly saw another one.
Compared to the GT the step forward in quality, and how it drives is remarkable. Stepping from one to the other when I picked up the Brera was like stepping into another make of car, the improvement is that marked. Friends with BM's and Audi's have all been very impressed which you couldn't have expected with previous Alfa's.
The issue with weight and how it blunts performance is one that will keep being raised, due to the pressure on manufacturers to produce safer, roomier, better equiped cars.
The comparison with the GTV is bound to be made but although it is the replacement within Alfa's range, I don't think it is fair to compare them, as they are from different times. It would be nigh on impossible for Alfa to introduce a car the size and spec of the GTV into the current market as things have moved on so much in the 12 years since it was launched. Multiple airbags, traction and stability control systems, improved crumple zones and crash protection are all necessary to meet regulations which never exsisted when the GTV was launched. Also, (the majority of), customers expect more features to be standard on cars today; Climate control, Cruise control, parking sensors, Sat Nav, electric everything, are all deemed necessary by buyers, not to mention more space for passengers and luggage.
It is almost impossible for any manufacturer to bring a replacement car to the market that satisfies all the criteria above, and weighs the same or less than it's predecessor.
The only example's I can think of, (and I'm sure there are more), are the TT and the MX5, both making extensive use of aluminium to acheive this.
It's disappointing that Alfa didn't follow this route with the Brera, or the 159, but they are not the only manufacturers guilty of letting the pounds pile on!
That's my rant over with anyway!
Just being honest mate!
I own one so I think that better qualifies me to comment than most!
I took a lot of stick from friends and colleagues when I said I was buying the GT, 2 years later they're eating their words and are jealous as hell of the Brera!
I think that shows how things have moved on.
I bought one because I want something different, I don't want a 3 series or a TT, both of which are great cars, but they're too common and just don't feel special.
Admittedly they've both been paid for with a car allowance, rather than my own hard-earned, but the GT only lost 6K in 2 yrs/30K miles, so they're not the money pits they used to be!
I own one so I think that better qualifies me to comment than most!
I took a lot of stick from friends and colleagues when I said I was buying the GT, 2 years later they're eating their words and are jealous as hell of the Brera!
I think that shows how things have moved on.
I bought one because I want something different, I don't want a 3 series or a TT, both of which are great cars, but they're too common and just don't feel special.
Admittedly they've both been paid for with a car allowance, rather than my own hard-earned, but the GT only lost 6K in 2 yrs/30K miles, so they're not the money pits they used to be!
I'm collecting my Brera shortly & very much looking forward to it 
I also used to have a GT & from the various test drives i've had of most of the range, i can concur, the Brera is night & day improvement over the older stuff. ( as is the 159 )
Lets face it, the GT is fundamentally a very old car.
I also used to have a GT & from the various test drives i've had of most of the range, i can concur, the Brera is night & day improvement over the older stuff. ( as is the 159 )
Lets face it, the GT is fundamentally a very old car.
I ordered a Brera yesterday (2.2 SV) attracted entirely by it's looks. I have always slagged Alfas due to their image of poor reliability and build quality and so it came as a shock when I saw a Brera for the first time last week and wanted one! Had a test drive on Sunday and it was very nice. It feels so well built and is smooth, quiet and refined. I know it may not be the fastest but I dont need that (anyway I have an MGTF160 if I want speed and thrills). It is funny though how embedded our misconceptions become. Going back 10 years I would never have considered either a Rover or an Alfa, but I fell for the MGF at first sight and 7 MG's later I would never have bought anything else ever again if they were still around. They turned out to be the most reliable and fun cars I have ever owned. I do hope I will be able to say the same about Alfa in a few years time.
On the reliability front, this will be my 4th Alfa & take me into my 9th year of ownership & i can honestly say i have never had an issue, ever, with reliability ( & that includes my old 155 ).
All you have to remember is to regularly check the oil, 'cus they can catch you out
You would have to say, the Brera is the sexiest, most strikingly different car available for the right side of 30k
). All you have to remember is to regularly check the oil, 'cus they can catch you out
You would have to say, the Brera is the sexiest, most strikingly different car available for the right side of 30k
Good posts from brerasv!
The Brera is not an out and out road burner but is very much a true Grand Tourer - in the way that many Alfas have been over the years. They've never been at the top of the list for out and out performance stats on paper but have a much broader general driving appeal. I know the recent GTAs and GTV V6s have been truly quick but traditionally Alfas have not appealled to the statistic quoting willy-wavers.
The suspension set-up of the new 159/Brera is leagues ahead of any recent Alfa in coping with UK broken and bumpy roads and it shows a really good balance between ride quality and handling, the brakes are good - especially the JTD and V6, and all the versions look fantastic and seem to be very well made (by Pininfarina). They also have a good boot, and child-useable back seats, so I don't think it's a joke either.
The Brera is not an out and out road burner but is very much a true Grand Tourer - in the way that many Alfas have been over the years. They've never been at the top of the list for out and out performance stats on paper but have a much broader general driving appeal. I know the recent GTAs and GTV V6s have been truly quick but traditionally Alfas have not appealled to the statistic quoting willy-wavers.
The suspension set-up of the new 159/Brera is leagues ahead of any recent Alfa in coping with UK broken and bumpy roads and it shows a really good balance between ride quality and handling, the brakes are good - especially the JTD and V6, and all the versions look fantastic and seem to be very well made (by Pininfarina). They also have a good boot, and child-useable back seats, so I don't think it's a joke either.
But it's TOO HEAVY. Weight will compromise suspension and brakes, and hence ride quality. So to get ride quality back handling suffers. Why do you think the Elise has better ride than many heavier sports cars yet more grip (per cm2 of footprint) and better handling? Because it doesn't weigh much!!!
pwig said:
'Hello sir, This is the new Brera, it has no more room than the GTV and it's less safe, on the upside, it does weigh a bit less'
yeah that's gonna work
I don't buy that PWIG, I love Alfa's have bough 4 of them so far and my son's had one... but the Brera is easily 200kg too heavy even for a modern car. Rich... yeah that's gonna work
Edited by richb on Saturday 22 July 19:15
4WD said:
Older cars are the way forward if this is the future. Where will it end? 400bhp 5mpg 2 tonner's that puff to 60 in 10 seconds. It's not progress, it's utterly ridiculous. Enough of these +£30k tanks already. You can get a 166 V6 for £2k that does the exact same job!
Alfa need to make a sub 950kg hatch with 150bhp, or I'm never getting another.
Alfa need to make a sub 950kg hatch with 150bhp, or I'm never getting another.
I agree completely. Just what is the point in everything getting bigger, higher and heavier? A Polo is now bigger than an old Golf; they've had to bring in a new small car (the Lupo) to truly replace the Polo; a Golf is now so big you need a crane to clean the roof, and an engine the size of what used to go in the bigger BMW's to power the thing... I miss my Alfasud; it got lighter by the week :heh: and it was probably faster with its 105bhp 1.5 boxer engine than half the new 140bhp multi valve hatch-tanks you see now
richb said:
I don't guy that PWIG, I love Alfa's have bough 4 of them so far and my son's had one... but the Brera is easily 200kg too heavy even for a modern car. Rich...
Yep...interestingly, the damn thing weighs more than an Audi S4, which has a bigger engine, more power, more seats, more boot, more gizmos... (let alone better handling etc. etc...).
havoc said:
But it's TOO HEAVY. Weight will compromise suspension and brakes, and hence ride quality. So to get ride quality back handling suffers. Why do you think the Elise has better ride than many heavier sports cars yet more grip (per cm2 of footprint) and better handling? Because it doesn't weigh much!!!
Yes. This is not in doubt. It is very heavy (for whatever reason??!!) and I know weight compromises all the dynamics. But! It still drives lovely, looks fantastic and has an excellent and comfortable cabin, so it does everything I need a car to do.
havoc said:
[Yep...interestingly, the damn thing weighs more than an Audi S4, which has a bigger engine, more power, more seats, more boot, more gizmos... (let alone better handling etc. etc...).
...and at £37,000 is almost 25% more expensive. Fact is, there probably are better cars than the Brera, but that does not make the Brera a bad car.jamieboy said:
havoc said:
[Yep...interestingly, the damn thing weighs more than an Audi S4, which has a bigger engine, more power, more seats, more boot, more gizmos... (let alone better handling etc. etc...).
...and at £37,000 is almost 25% more expensive. You missed my point. Most people would consider an S4 to be a class above, both in performance and in size/practicality. Yet they're similar weights. Clearly Alfa lost the plot in designing the Brera somewhere along the line, to end up at a 1 3/4 tonnes for a mid-market 2+2 coupe!! Everyone else, despite the same crash-regs and market requirements, can still bring their cars in at sub-1.5t (well, 350Z is a little over that, but that's ultra-lardy too!)
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