Old skool ford engine tuning

[studog]

I am currently building a fast road 1600 crossflow for a Seven. It will have oversize valves, ported head, lightened flywheel and all the ggod stuff.

Given that I actually drive the car on the road and track days and intend to use a single downdraft carb what cam should I use?

My current 1380 crossflow has a kent BCF3. This seems fine to me. However I have been told that a kent 234 will give more torque and be better in traffic. Ok so far but according to piper their BP 285 which "will give massive gains in torque and power" and is fine in traffic whilst the kent 244 (which has a very simlar spec) is supposed to be awful.

Any one got any actual experience of these things that can shed some light or shall I just go with what I know works in the other engine?

[RichardD]

studog said:

I am currently building a fast road 1600 crossflow for a Seven. It will have oversize valves, ported head, lightened flywheel and all the ggod stuff. Given that I actually drive the car on the road and track days and intend to use a single downdraft carb what cam should I use? My current 1380 crossflow has a kent BCF3. This seems fine to me. However I have been told that a kent 234 will give more torque and be better in traffic. Ok so far but according to piper their BP 285 which "will give massive gains in torque and power" and is fine in traffic whilst the kent 244 (which has a very simlar spec) is supposed to be awful. Any one got any actual experience of these things that can shed some light or shall I just go with what I know works in the other engine?

Had a 1600 XFlow in a Sylva Fury. Was a few years back, and as I remember there was five kent cams in the range. Mine was 2nd tamest (i.e. another three more radical ones). There was no power below about 2000 revs (setting off with 1500 = stall). It worked at 2k, good at 3k and by 4k it was off...... Didn't find it too much of a problem in traffic, suppose it is a proprity between road and track in the end.

Twin Webbers and polished head. Did one r.r and worked out at 138bhp (115 I think after transmission loss). Not bad for such an ancient lump.

Sorry I can't add any more...

[dern]

studog said:

I am currently building a fast road 1600 crossflow for a Seven. It will have oversize valves, ported head, lightened flywheel and all the ggod stuff. Given that I actually drive the car on the road and track days and intend to use a single downdraft carb what cam should I use? My current 1380 crossflow has a kent BCF3. This seems fine to me. However I have been told that a kent 234 will give more torque and be better in traffic. Ok so far but according to piper their BP 285 which "will give massive gains in torque and power" and is fine in traffic whilst the kent 244 (which has a very simlar spec) is supposed to be awful. Any one got any actual experience of these things that can shed some light or shall I just go with what I know works in the other engine?

The westfield I just sold had a piper 285 in a 1700 xflow with a 711 block and twin 40s and I can assure you it's completely driveable in traffic pulling from low down no problem at all in a seven type car. It really takes off at 4000rpm though so you'll probably want to fit double springs if you want to rev it a bit. You can check out the complete spec (ish) of my engine (before I sold it) in my profile as the application of the cam may be slightly different with your engine configuration. I'd also suggest calling piper and asking their advice. I'm afraid I have no experience of kent cams to give you a comparison I'm afraid.

Regards,

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Friday 18th June 20:44

[GavinPearson]

studog said:

I am currently building a fast road 1600 crossflow for a Seven. It will have oversize valves, ported head, lightened flywheel and all the ggod stuff. Given that I actually drive the car on the road and track days and intend to use a single downdraft carb what cam should I use? My current 1380 crossflow has a kent BCF3. This seems fine to me. However I have been told that a kent 234 will give more torque and be better in traffic. Ok so far but according to piper their BP 285 which "will give massive gains in torque and power" and is fine in traffic whilst the kent 244 (which has a very simlar spec) is supposed to be awful. Any one got any actual experience of these things that can shed some light or shall I just go with what I know works in the other engine?

If you are using a single downdraught carb it will not flow enough air to make use of a wild cam so I would be fairly conservative.

In most cases a loss of bottom end power is down to a poor choice (or recommendation) of exhaust and poor set up on the rolls.

[Justin S]

If you use a 244,then you will have to deck the pistons to prevent contact with the valves.If you do that,you will then loose compression ratio.The 244 is not as nice to drive as a 234 and that goes straight in without mods.If you do go the 244 route,remember that you will have to do a dry build to work out your C.R and then strip and 'machine the block' as this is where your C.R is changed,not the head.With a good spec,130 bhp is very possible,even on a single twin choke.If you need any bits,have suddenly come into some standard parts.I take it you will be fitting 1300cc pistons instead of 1600cc ones?
Morning Dern ;-)

[M@H]

I reckon you want an overbore and some 83.5mm pistons then you've got a 1700 instead of a 1600.. or go to 85mm and 1760cc.. of course you'll need some twin 40DCOE Webers on it too to make the most of it..

Cheers
Matt

[Justin S]

I went 83.5mm to 1700cc and that was £600 for a set of luverly Arias pistons!!!!!!

[studog]

Not thinking of going down the 83.5 bore route as good blocks are getting scarce. If I do that it will be a scrapper next time it needs a bore.

It is looking like the Piper 285 option is favourite at this point although sticking with a the safe choice of the BCF3 (that I know works) is also a temptation!

I have mixed feelings about going the twin carb route as I have mixed experience of reliability long term. I don't really want to be faffing every weekend for the sake of 10 more bhp!

Any thoughts on valve sizes etc?

[studog]

Mark just looked at your profile looks like the westy was nice car. Was the head modified?

Cool to see you have a sensible everyday motor. We have a Copenhagen blue 944 too albeit slightly older and fitted with a 2.7 engine!

[Justin S]

there not rare!!! got two blocks and a head(sold a stage 3 last week) cranks,rods......all tucked up in the garage!!!

[dern]

studog said:

Mark just looked at your profile looks like the westy was nice car. Was the head modified?

No idea I'm afraid, I bought the car as is (was).

studog said:

Cool to see you have a sensible everyday motor. We have a Copenhagen blue 944 too albeit slightly older and fitted with a 2.7 engine!

I absolutely love that car. I drew up a long list of cars for 3k and then just went and bought that one with my heart. Sorted out the suspension and it amazes me how well it drives. Needs the valve guides doing so it smoke a bit on start up but it's easily one of my favourite cars, easy to work on and great value for money

Regards,

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Monday 21st June 22:19

[studog]

Justin S said:

there not rare!!! got two blocks and a head(sold a stage 3 last week) cranks,rods......all tucked up in the garage!!!

So it is you that has got them all!

What spec is the head that you have still got?
Have you also got an escort style sump (the deep bit at the rear) for a 1600?

[M@H]

studog said:

Justin S said: there not rare!!! got two blocks and a head(sold a stage 3 last week) cranks,rods......all tucked up in the garage!!! So it is you that has got them all! What spec is the head that you have still got? Have you also got an escort style sump (the deep bit at the rear) for a 1600?

Stu, what are you doing on PH at this time of day..??

Have a look around Ebay mate, there are some twin 40's off a 1600 a BCF2 cam and loads of other goodies..

how about these too
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72205&item=7906284770&rd=1



Matt

[Justin S]

the head I have left is a standard 1600.I will have a look at the sump this week.(have to dig it out mums garage!!)

[studog]

Justin S said:

the head I have left is a standard 1600.I will have a look at the sump this week.(have to dig it out mums garage!!)

Cool be in touch later

[riyaaz]

hi i am busy building a 1600 kent engine for my mk 1 escort and i wanted to know which modifications i should make in order to get the most power out of the engine but still keep it practical for driving in traffic

[alymcleod]

HI Riyazz,

I just had a bad time with my 681F 1660 They really are expensive when they go wrong - be warned !
Had I known what would happen I would have gone Zetec

Its fitted to a Midget, type 9 box.

I'm no mechanic so this is all new to me too. I would normally leave this sort of thing to a pro' but I'm skint

The head was smoky on restart so I bought what turned out to be a lemon off fleabay.

Bought an A14 cam from a reputable supplier which I was told would not interfere with the valves - it did of course ! Not by much but enough to break two followers and to clean the dirt off the pistons where the valves just kissed them

New parts fitted
Cam shaft
Followers
Water pump
Oil pump
Full Cometic gasket kit (to stop it wee-ing on the floor)
Clutch, pressure plate and release bearing

About £600 so far


Listed as "new" the head looked great having 41mm / 36mm valves and shiny new with good paint. At £150 I thought it was a bit of a bargain. I took it to James at Grace Engines in Newbury yesterday. The valve shafts are worn out and the seals are buggered too ! Ebayer supersport130 needs a bloody good kicking

£750

Having such big valves the jury's out on whether the weber 32/34 is up to the job to feed it. Might need to trade up to a weber 38 off a V6. Thing is I use it for commuting so the economy and simplicity of a single carb is appealing.

Basic spec of my 1660

Block - 861F 6015 DA
(originally 1600cc Ford Cortina Mk 11 88 hp)

Rebored to 82.48mm
Pistons (1300) #18647 N25 +060”
Capacity now 1658 cc I think

Head Stage 111
Valves 41mm /36mm. gap .016 inlet .016 exhaust

Camshaft
Kent Fast Road A14 .385 Lift, 286/278 deg Duration 2000rpm – 7000rpm

Duplex Double cam chain

Carburettor
Weber 32/36 DG V5A

Flywheel - Lightened to 7kg

Just stripped the engine right down tonight. bores are ok thank God. Cam shaft has a few little nicks in it but hopefully not enough to weaken it. One of the conrods has a mark on it too.

New rings
Vernier pulley for the cam
another set of new followers
yet another gasket set

It's going to be close to a grand just for 120 hp !

While its down I think I'm going to be balancing the pistons, crank etc. James recons the pistons need pocketing by about .030".

Good reading here-

http://www.spannerfodder.com/the_works_escorts-how...
http://www.spannerfodder.com/the_works_escorts-xfl...
http://calencar.free.fr/escort/tech/ford_kent_cros...

I also have the download version of "rebuilding and Tuning Ford's Kent Crossflow Engines" by
Peter and Valerie Wallage - which is a great guide.

Old Skool - new prices ...........

[Pumaracing]

In order of increasing power / decreasing tractability the cams go BCF3, 234, Piper 285 then 244. However there's little to choose between the first two, then there's a noticeable jump of about 5 to 7 extra bhp and a loss of 750 to 1000 low rpm rpm tractability and again little to choose between the last two.

I'd stick with either of the first two if you want really nice road driveability on a single carb with a small preference for the 234.

I also suggest you read my General Tuning guide, the Crossflow specific tuning guide and any of the other articles on exhaust sizing, choke and carb sizing and various other stuff.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110902010921/http://...

[alymcleod]

Damn ! I wish I had contacted Puma racing first before I got into this mess. Here I am, £800 quid down and I still need to get the head overhauled

[Pumaracing]

alymcleod said:

Damn ! I wish I had contacted Puma racing first before I got into this mess. Here I am, £800 quid down and I still need to get the head overhauled

I can't help with any actual work given A) I'm sort of retired and B) 600 miles away in NE Scotland but I'll do whatever I can with advice on here if you need it.