Over 200K Miles.... Still works.
Discussion
Serviced my 996 today, it's an early 99 C4. I also tend to use it everday so it racks up anywhere from 200 to 750 miles a week. It has 10K mile oil changes but aside from that has very little in the way of extra pampering and has now covered 206K'ish miles (the dash packed up at 155K miles and there was a few weeks running with no odo before one turned up on ebay). It also does a few track days when the opportunity presents itself.
It's pretty much standard engine wise bar having had the aircon removed (so no condensors in front of the coolant rads), an X51 style sump, no cats, relatively open air filter etc. but no third rads, low temp stats or IMS replacements.
As it was due plugs I thought I'd put the bore scope in it and....... it's fine, totally fine! Very light amount of scuffing on the thrust faces on all cylinders but no more than is to be expected given its age the mileage its covered and I do mean light, the kind of scuffing you see on a sporty Duratec after a few hours.
I thought I better have a look as I noticed it had a light tap from cold start now the temperature has dropped which went away as the coolant temp came up. On close inspection this appears to be a slightly lazy tappet on no.1 cylinder so that's one to ignore. This engine is so old and has so many miles it's not worth major surgery for that.
In it's recent past it's always been run on 0W/40 Mobil 1 and it consumes about 150ml per thousand miles. It generally has an extra litre two thirds of the way towards its next service.
It's still on the original clutch, diffs and gearbox..... massive amounts of stone chips aside, shrunken rubbers and slightly saggy drivers seat bolster it even scrubs up pretty well!
Consensous says early 3.4 had the better IMS and doesn't suffer from scuffing in the same way as the later 3.6 and this seems to prove out here. Has anyone else got one that seems to keep soldiering on regardless?
It's pretty much standard engine wise bar having had the aircon removed (so no condensors in front of the coolant rads), an X51 style sump, no cats, relatively open air filter etc. but no third rads, low temp stats or IMS replacements.
As it was due plugs I thought I'd put the bore scope in it and....... it's fine, totally fine! Very light amount of scuffing on the thrust faces on all cylinders but no more than is to be expected given its age the mileage its covered and I do mean light, the kind of scuffing you see on a sporty Duratec after a few hours.
I thought I better have a look as I noticed it had a light tap from cold start now the temperature has dropped which went away as the coolant temp came up. On close inspection this appears to be a slightly lazy tappet on no.1 cylinder so that's one to ignore. This engine is so old and has so many miles it's not worth major surgery for that.
In it's recent past it's always been run on 0W/40 Mobil 1 and it consumes about 150ml per thousand miles. It generally has an extra litre two thirds of the way towards its next service.
It's still on the original clutch, diffs and gearbox..... massive amounts of stone chips aside, shrunken rubbers and slightly saggy drivers seat bolster it even scrubs up pretty well!
Consensous says early 3.4 had the better IMS and doesn't suffer from scuffing in the same way as the later 3.6 and this seems to prove out here. Has anyone else got one that seems to keep soldiering on regardless?
mollytherocker said:
Very impressive BUT!
How long have you had it and how do you know its not either been rebuilt or had an engine change previously?
I'm responsible for over 80K of them. It has a huge amount of service history none of which relates to having had a motor, Porsche have no record of it having warranty work aside from a failed pas electric mirror in 2003, its never had an engine number change according to the DVLA and the number on the block is as per line, the engine mount nuts had never been removed until I fitted some RSS mounts a while back and all the cable tie retainers and similar are still in place and undamaged. Having had a good sniff around it earlier today there are other pointers, like the direction of marking on the bell housing bolts which show they've only ever had torque in one direction.How long have you had it and how do you know its not either been rebuilt or had an engine change previously?
I did a bit of research as until a few weeks ago I was certain it had been rebuilt at some point... because all 996s blow up before 100K right?
On balance all the evidence points to it being original. My 2002 Boxster has over 287K miles on its 2.7l engine. Except for consumables the only engine work that required opening up the engine any -- removing a camshaft cover -- was a bad VarioCam solenoid/actuator on the passenger side bank.
Original clutch, tranny, diff, radiators, A/C condensers. RMS and new iMS flange and bolts replaced under warranty at around 25K miles. New water pump, fuel pump, coolant tank. Coolant tank cap. One wheel bearing. Some O2 sensors. About a zillion AOS's. Well, for "zillion" read three. Face it the AOS is a wear item.
Recently replaced the original converters with some sourced from a salvage yard when one of the original ones got so rattly I couldn't stand the noise.
Some little things: Passenger side door latch assembly. Driver's side door lock. Both window regulators. Rear window: Just cracked one cool day when I failed to do the "chop" right. Had the CV bearings cleaned, repacked and fitted with new boots. Clutch and brake light switches and were replaced. Ignition switch replaced. MAF is original, but there's a short story associated with this. I replaced this thinking it was bad and the real problem proved to be the oil filler tube cap. It was leaking. After replacing the MAF I found the cap was leaking and replaced the cap. Shoot ahead oh maybe 100K miles and the replacement MAF bit the dust. I dug the original MAF out the box and installed it back in the car and its just fine now and I don't know how many total miles it has on it. Rock cracked windshield and this was replaced. Almost time for another one the replacement is so pitted now.
What else? Oh, both front and rear trunk lid struts replaced. The OE ones finally were not able to hold the lid up.
Engine still runs quite good. Same gas mileage as always. Doesn't seem to consume much more oil, about a liter every 5K miles. Oil gets changed every 5K miles. Recently switched from Mobil 1 0w-40 to Mobil 1 5w-50 (not a typo for 15w-50!) because while it doesn't get that cold here it gets plenty warm/hot in the summertime and I felt 5w-50 better for the engine.
Have to point out before switching to 5w-50 oil both the Boxster and Turbo have survived Sahara Desert like heat a number of times with no ill effects and running Mobil 1 0w-40 oil.
Car felt a bit squirrelly for some time now but some new front tires tightened the car right up. (I'm back to running Pirelli tires which is what the car with from the factory.) The front tires had a huge number of miles on them, so much so they were nearly to the wear bars. Generally I replace the front tires every other time I replace the rear tires so the fronts run about 40K miles but this time I think I left the fronts on for maybe closer to 60K miles. Whatever the miles they were clearly past it.
I don't recall how often I have to do the brakes. They just last a long time. (My Turbo's front brakes lasted 110K+ miles.)
Other fluids and things like brake/clutch fluid flush/bleeding gets done on schedule. Well, most of the time. However, this last time I let the fluid go 2.5 years and while the brakes were still ok the clutch was acting up as was the shifting but after the flush/bleed the clutch and shifting problems disappeared.
Another thing I like to have done is the coolant drained and replaced every 4 to 5 years. One reason I think the original water pump lasted 170K+ miles and the rest of the cooling system hardware is original.
The car doesn't see any track time, but it gets enjoyed once in a while on twisty roads and it spent a number of hours and miles running pretty fast out on the deserted highways of the USA southwest. It also gets called upon to get the groceries and for work commuting.
I know some owners have had some horrible experiences with their Porsche engines but this has been the best engine ever and the car the best car ever.
Original clutch, tranny, diff, radiators, A/C condensers. RMS and new iMS flange and bolts replaced under warranty at around 25K miles. New water pump, fuel pump, coolant tank. Coolant tank cap. One wheel bearing. Some O2 sensors. About a zillion AOS's. Well, for "zillion" read three. Face it the AOS is a wear item.
Recently replaced the original converters with some sourced from a salvage yard when one of the original ones got so rattly I couldn't stand the noise.
Some little things: Passenger side door latch assembly. Driver's side door lock. Both window regulators. Rear window: Just cracked one cool day when I failed to do the "chop" right. Had the CV bearings cleaned, repacked and fitted with new boots. Clutch and brake light switches and were replaced. Ignition switch replaced. MAF is original, but there's a short story associated with this. I replaced this thinking it was bad and the real problem proved to be the oil filler tube cap. It was leaking. After replacing the MAF I found the cap was leaking and replaced the cap. Shoot ahead oh maybe 100K miles and the replacement MAF bit the dust. I dug the original MAF out the box and installed it back in the car and its just fine now and I don't know how many total miles it has on it. Rock cracked windshield and this was replaced. Almost time for another one the replacement is so pitted now.
What else? Oh, both front and rear trunk lid struts replaced. The OE ones finally were not able to hold the lid up.
Engine still runs quite good. Same gas mileage as always. Doesn't seem to consume much more oil, about a liter every 5K miles. Oil gets changed every 5K miles. Recently switched from Mobil 1 0w-40 to Mobil 1 5w-50 (not a typo for 15w-50!) because while it doesn't get that cold here it gets plenty warm/hot in the summertime and I felt 5w-50 better for the engine.
Have to point out before switching to 5w-50 oil both the Boxster and Turbo have survived Sahara Desert like heat a number of times with no ill effects and running Mobil 1 0w-40 oil.
Car felt a bit squirrelly for some time now but some new front tires tightened the car right up. (I'm back to running Pirelli tires which is what the car with from the factory.) The front tires had a huge number of miles on them, so much so they were nearly to the wear bars. Generally I replace the front tires every other time I replace the rear tires so the fronts run about 40K miles but this time I think I left the fronts on for maybe closer to 60K miles. Whatever the miles they were clearly past it.
I don't recall how often I have to do the brakes. They just last a long time. (My Turbo's front brakes lasted 110K+ miles.)
Other fluids and things like brake/clutch fluid flush/bleeding gets done on schedule. Well, most of the time. However, this last time I let the fluid go 2.5 years and while the brakes were still ok the clutch was acting up as was the shifting but after the flush/bleed the clutch and shifting problems disappeared.
Another thing I like to have done is the coolant drained and replaced every 4 to 5 years. One reason I think the original water pump lasted 170K+ miles and the rest of the cooling system hardware is original.
The car doesn't see any track time, but it gets enjoyed once in a while on twisty roads and it spent a number of hours and miles running pretty fast out on the deserted highways of the USA southwest. It also gets called upon to get the groceries and for work commuting.
I know some owners have had some horrible experiences with their Porsche engines but this has been the best engine ever and the car the best car ever.
Edited by Rockster on Monday 1st December 01:06
My dear old 993 of which I have the full history trail from OPC since 1997, has had the following replaced in her 128K mile life.
New dampers, springs, top mounts, ARB bushes and drop links all round at 125K miles. What a waste of money on the dampers and springs. Other than the links, bushes and top mounts which were worn out, she drives no better than on the original stuff, so dampers etc didnt need replacing.
Clutch? Still on her original
In fact she is still on her original everything other than a new front nearside wheel bearing, and front wishbone balljoint; though saying that I recon at 130K miles the front wishbones will be kaput. (They were within tolerance at 125K and are the original)
Makes me giggle when you see cars advertised as low mileage, well looked after, new clutch fitted and new suspension at 40K miles on a 993 (or other aircooled) and you pay for the privlige of low miles.
Damn those cars must have been abused to warrant the expense.
Tired of forum banter where people harp on about this must me kaput, that that is kaput, just because of the mileage. ......... The OP proves thats rarely the only factor or case.
New dampers, springs, top mounts, ARB bushes and drop links all round at 125K miles. What a waste of money on the dampers and springs. Other than the links, bushes and top mounts which were worn out, she drives no better than on the original stuff, so dampers etc didnt need replacing.
Clutch? Still on her original
In fact she is still on her original everything other than a new front nearside wheel bearing, and front wishbone balljoint; though saying that I recon at 130K miles the front wishbones will be kaput. (They were within tolerance at 125K and are the original)
Makes me giggle when you see cars advertised as low mileage, well looked after, new clutch fitted and new suspension at 40K miles on a 993 (or other aircooled) and you pay for the privlige of low miles.
Damn those cars must have been abused to warrant the expense.
Tired of forum banter where people harp on about this must me kaput, that that is kaput, just because of the mileage. ......... The OP proves thats rarely the only factor or case.
Rockster - Wow good mileage! 
I wonder if mine will make it to 300K?
If we're doing a full list of bits replaced I am at:
- Dampers and springs, swapped for KW V1 at 160K miles.
- Front coffin arms at the same time, rears were fine.
- Top mounts and bearings also done at the same time, they were actually okay it just seemed rude not to!
- Radiators are original but as discussed it has done a lot of miles with no aircon so the issue of rotting rads due to debris trapped between the coils is mute on this one.
- Aircon packed up and went in the bin at 177K miles, I only miss it two weeks a year if that.
- Original exhausts were all done at 133K miles. Now has generic stainless items on there with Design 911 decat pipes.
- Brakes get replaced every 30 - 40K miles. Usually pads at 20K but I run a soft pad.
- Rear link ball joints developed play at around 140K miles, I made some rose jointed ones to replace them so the rose joints generally get replaced once a year or so when they are worn.
- Dash broke as above and was replaced for an e-bay one. Most of it still worked fine but the LCD speedo display had lost two digits.
- Gear linkage front end fell apart at 180K and was replaced with a short shift.
MAF, Coils, Variocam actuators etc. are all original.
Not working list is pretty short. Air con (as it's in a box in the garage, reverse lights (never worked in my ownership). Aside from that it's all still good! I think on average it has around a week of maintenance/jobs done over the course of a year and 30 - 40K miles.
I wonder if mine will make it to 300K? If we're doing a full list of bits replaced I am at:
- Dampers and springs, swapped for KW V1 at 160K miles.
- Front coffin arms at the same time, rears were fine.
- Top mounts and bearings also done at the same time, they were actually okay it just seemed rude not to!
- Radiators are original but as discussed it has done a lot of miles with no aircon so the issue of rotting rads due to debris trapped between the coils is mute on this one.
- Aircon packed up and went in the bin at 177K miles, I only miss it two weeks a year if that.
- Original exhausts were all done at 133K miles. Now has generic stainless items on there with Design 911 decat pipes.
- Brakes get replaced every 30 - 40K miles. Usually pads at 20K but I run a soft pad.
- Rear link ball joints developed play at around 140K miles, I made some rose jointed ones to replace them so the rose joints generally get replaced once a year or so when they are worn.
- Dash broke as above and was replaced for an e-bay one. Most of it still worked fine but the LCD speedo display had lost two digits.
- Gear linkage front end fell apart at 180K and was replaced with a short shift.
MAF, Coils, Variocam actuators etc. are all original.
Not working list is pretty short. Air con (as it's in a box in the garage, reverse lights (never worked in my ownership). Aside from that it's all still good! I think on average it has around a week of maintenance/jobs done over the course of a year and 30 - 40K miles.
hondansx said:
Great stories there - very reassuring!
Worse with Ferraris though Wozy. Can't do more than a handful of miles in a Fezza or it's not worth anything! Your reward? It will cost you thousands to repair bits that go wrong because of underuse!
Ah, but due to the huge value placed on low miles there's an attraction to using one then having the mileage "adjusted" so it appears you've not driven it as far as you have (people's greed tends to overcome their scruples). The knock-on effect is that there are cars that need work doing with far lower mileages displayed than that at which you'd expect to need the work doing.Worse with Ferraris though Wozy. Can't do more than a handful of miles in a Fezza or it's not worth anything! Your reward? It will cost you thousands to repair bits that go wrong because of underuse!
thegoose said:
Ah, but due to the huge value placed on low miles there's an attraction to using one then having the mileage "adjusted" so it appears you've not driven it as far as you have (people's greed tends to overcome their scruples). The knock-on effect is that there are cars that need work doing with far lower mileages displayed than that at which you'd expect to need the work doing.
Indeed, one of the very respected indys that posts on here stated that he rejected a lot of cars due to 'incorrect' mileages.mollytherocker said:
thegoose said:
Ah, but due to the huge value placed on low miles there's an attraction to using one then having the mileage "adjusted" so it appears you've not driven it as far as you have (people's greed tends to overcome their scruples). The knock-on effect is that there are cars that need work doing with far lower mileages displayed than that at which you'd expect to need the work doing.
Indeed, one of the very respected indys that posts on here stated that he rejected a lot of cars due to 'incorrect' mileages.PS. Not to worry, 964 owners haven't had to worry about stellar mileage v value for a couple of years now.
Wozy68 said:
Molly, I've noticed on 911uk that yours has tipped over the 100k mileage. I congratulate you and assume you no longer worry that your 993 is now worthless
PS. Not to worry, 964 owners haven't had to worry about stellar mileage v value for a couple of years now.
Yes, its now at 102k and is therefore worth little more than a few hundred pounds.PS. Not to worry, 964 owners haven't had to worry about stellar mileage v value for a couple of years now.
Its currently at 9m having a not insignificant amount of work carried out to the body.
I expect to be sleeping on the streets by Christmas....
mollytherocker said:
thegoose said:
Ah, but due to the huge value placed on low miles there's an attraction to using one then having the mileage "adjusted" so it appears you've not driven it as far as you have (people's greed tends to overcome their scruples). The knock-on effect is that there are cars that need work doing with far lower mileages displayed than that at which you'd expect to need the work doing.
Indeed, one of the very respected indys that posts on here stated that he rejected a lot of cars due to 'incorrect' mileages.That's fantastic!
There is a specialist that is now advising that there are not build issues with the engine and it's infact due to the fuel. Haven't seen Hartech's response on this.
My 997 C2S is a 2005 car and has covered 48k miles. I haven't taken it on track days or driven like a douche, however I have driven the Autobahn properly.
Mine has had (under warranty):
Gearbox rebuild/replacement
RMS/IMS after a puddle on my garage floor
Front suspension replaced (rattled on the firm setting)
Heat shields
There is a specialist that is now advising that there are not build issues with the engine and it's infact due to the fuel. Haven't seen Hartech's response on this.
My 997 C2S is a 2005 car and has covered 48k miles. I haven't taken it on track days or driven like a douche, however I have driven the Autobahn properly.
Mine has had (under warranty):
Gearbox rebuild/replacement
RMS/IMS after a puddle on my garage floor
Front suspension replaced (rattled on the firm setting)
Heat shields
fastgerman said:
There is a specialist that is now advising that there are not build issues with the engine and it's infact due to the fuel. Haven't seen Hartech's response on this.
Hartech appears to disagree with the fuel theory. His comments can be found here:http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
fastgerman said:
Interested to see their new product line as mine has no low temperature modifications at present.
I thought 964's were suppose to need engine rebuilds by 100k? Makes them similar to a 996 / early 997 then right?
Theres quite a difference. The 964 M64 sufferred leaks from the head bolts due to poor sealing. This could be fixed fairly easily.I thought 964's were suppose to need engine rebuilds by 100k? Makes them similar to a 996 / early 997 then right?
The 996 M96 self destructs itself in many different ways, exploding IMS, ovalling and cracking liners, scoring liners etc.
I guess the leaking RMS is a similar issue.
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