LTI 20-20 UltraLyte 100 Calibration checks
Discussion
Hello,
Although still a "lurker", I last posted here about 2 years ago and was given some valuable information and I am hopeful that the forum members can assist again.
In March I was stopped at 10.50pm on a Sunday night, by Kent Trafpol who were using the above speed gun. I was allegedly measured doing 40mph, in a 30mph street ( a very busy "A road" but NOT at that time on a Sunday night). Not relevant but I was travelling home from work and was about 1/4mile from my home address. I know the road is a 30mph and I am adamant that I was not speeding. The matter is now going to court in September. There does appear to be a lot of conflicting evidence on the various internet forums so I`d like to ask
1. What calibration checks must the officer/s complete on the said device at the start/end of their shift? Should these checks be recorded in their notebooks?
2. In his statement, the officer states that he completed the horizontal and vertical site checks using the speed camera on a petrol sign. The garage in question would be about 300 meters from where the officer was, and it would have meant him pointing the camera in the air as the signage is about 30` to 40` up in the air. Would that give an accurate reading?
3. I wasn`t given a FPN but a "Driver Referral" slip, which was generated by a machine one of the officers had and it looks like a long till reciept which contains a number of details (similar to a FPN). Contrary to the officers statement, I was not shown the reading from the speed laser and I was never cautioned. I was just told I was doing 40mph. The whole of the "driver referral" slip has been completed in full but the part marked "recorded Speed MPH)-", has not been completed.
4. Is speeding an absolute offence? Is there a said distance that they should have had the speed gun on me i.e I was travelling at 40mph over 200meters.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Although still a "lurker", I last posted here about 2 years ago and was given some valuable information and I am hopeful that the forum members can assist again.
In March I was stopped at 10.50pm on a Sunday night, by Kent Trafpol who were using the above speed gun. I was allegedly measured doing 40mph, in a 30mph street ( a very busy "A road" but NOT at that time on a Sunday night). Not relevant but I was travelling home from work and was about 1/4mile from my home address. I know the road is a 30mph and I am adamant that I was not speeding. The matter is now going to court in September. There does appear to be a lot of conflicting evidence on the various internet forums so I`d like to ask
1. What calibration checks must the officer/s complete on the said device at the start/end of their shift? Should these checks be recorded in their notebooks?
2. In his statement, the officer states that he completed the horizontal and vertical site checks using the speed camera on a petrol sign. The garage in question would be about 300 meters from where the officer was, and it would have meant him pointing the camera in the air as the signage is about 30` to 40` up in the air. Would that give an accurate reading?
3. I wasn`t given a FPN but a "Driver Referral" slip, which was generated by a machine one of the officers had and it looks like a long till reciept which contains a number of details (similar to a FPN). Contrary to the officers statement, I was not shown the reading from the speed laser and I was never cautioned. I was just told I was doing 40mph. The whole of the "driver referral" slip has been completed in full but the part marked "recorded Speed MPH)-", has not been completed.
4. Is speeding an absolute offence? Is there a said distance that they should have had the speed gun on me i.e I was travelling at 40mph over 200meters.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Stop wriggling, man up, pay up. It's just a few quid and a few points, FFS.
PS: there is no "evidence" on internet forums. There are many opinions. Most of them are likely to be worthless. Evidence is what will be used to pot you in court.
PPS: if you really want to fight the case, contact agtlaw via this forum and hire him to defend you. He is a guru in this field.
PS: there is no "evidence" on internet forums. There are many opinions. Most of them are likely to be worthless. Evidence is what will be used to pot you in court.
PPS: if you really want to fight the case, contact agtlaw via this forum and hire him to defend you. He is a guru in this field.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th August 11:32
I use this device daily.
They are calibrated each year by an external company, usually Tele-Traffic.
Before each shift we have a set distance marked out in the back yard 30 meters away from a wall which is marked out by trading standards. Other stations have different distances. I fire the laser to the wall to make sure it reads 0mph at 30 meters. We also carry out an alignment check which checks that the red dot sight is in correct alignment.
I also carry out an alignment check whilst at the enforcement site too for good measure. These checks are also done at the end of the shift.
The checks are recorded in my pocket book. To see the pocket book and calibration certificate from the yearly check, you will have to take it to court.
They are calibrated each year by an external company, usually Tele-Traffic.
Before each shift we have a set distance marked out in the back yard 30 meters away from a wall which is marked out by trading standards. Other stations have different distances. I fire the laser to the wall to make sure it reads 0mph at 30 meters. We also carry out an alignment check which checks that the red dot sight is in correct alignment.
I also carry out an alignment check whilst at the enforcement site too for good measure. These checks are also done at the end of the shift.
The checks are recorded in my pocket book. To see the pocket book and calibration certificate from the yearly check, you will have to take it to court.
Edited by HantsRat on Friday 14th August 11:46
HantsRat, you are a welcome addition to this sub-forum with your well informed and balanced contributions from a traffic police perspective. Was that thread about the weird window washer machine pulled after that bloke made a wild allegation about the use of the PNC? It seems to have vanished. It was pretty bonkers anyway.
Breadvan72 said:
HantsRat, you are a welcome addition to this sub-forum with your well informed and balanced contributions from a traffic police perspective. Was that thread about the weird window washer machine pulled after that bloke made a wild allegation about the use of the PNC? It seems to have vanished. It was pretty bonkers anyway.
I believe it was deleted. One min it was there the next it was not! I think some people believe we have a PNC app on our phones that we can access 24 hours a day for what ever reason we like haha! Greendubber said:
HantsRat said:
I believe it was deleted. One min it was there the next it was not! I think some people believe we have a PNC app on our phones that we can access 24 hours a day for what ever reason we like haha!
Missed that one 
He felt the threats were coming through PH, and asked for the thread to be removed.
I have to admit I find it odd that someone from PH escalated to that after a discussion of what private information was available on the internet. However it seems a demented thing for the OP to have invented. So who knows but given where it was going the thread was better off getting nuked I guess!
Davo93 said:
Hello,
Although still a "lurker", I last posted here about 2 years ago and was given some valuable information and I am hopeful that the forum members can assist again.
In March I was stopped at 10.50pm on a Sunday night, by Kent Trafpol who were using the above speed gun. I was allegedly measured doing 40mph, in a 30mph street ( a very busy "A road" but NOT at that time on a Sunday night). Not relevant but I was travelling home from work and was about 1/4mile from my home address. I know the road is a 30mph and I am adamant that I was not speeding. The matter is now going to court in September. There does appear to be a lot of conflicting evidence on the various internet forums so I`d like to ask
1. What calibration checks must the officer/s complete on the said device at the start/end of their shift? Should these checks be recorded in their notebooks?
The officers have no checks that they "must" do at the start and end of every shift but there are some that are recommended. They usually check the speed of a stationary target and the distance to it, they also check the alignment of the sighting scope to the laser beam.Although still a "lurker", I last posted here about 2 years ago and was given some valuable information and I am hopeful that the forum members can assist again.
In March I was stopped at 10.50pm on a Sunday night, by Kent Trafpol who were using the above speed gun. I was allegedly measured doing 40mph, in a 30mph street ( a very busy "A road" but NOT at that time on a Sunday night). Not relevant but I was travelling home from work and was about 1/4mile from my home address. I know the road is a 30mph and I am adamant that I was not speeding. The matter is now going to court in September. There does appear to be a lot of conflicting evidence on the various internet forums so I`d like to ask
1. What calibration checks must the officer/s complete on the said device at the start/end of their shift? Should these checks be recorded in their notebooks?
Davo93 said:
2. In his statement, the officer states that he completed the horizontal and vertical site checks using the speed camera on a petrol sign. The garage in question would be about 300 meters from where the officer was, and it would have meant him pointing the camera in the air as the signage is about 30` to 40` up in the air. Would that give an accurate reading?
Yes, no problem. What problem does the hight suggest to you; gravity isn't a problem.Davo93 said:
3. I wasn`t given a FPN but a "Driver Referral" slip, which was generated by a machine one of the officers had and it looks like a long till reciept which contains a number of details (similar to a FPN). Contrary to the officers statement, I was not shown the reading from the speed laser and I was never cautioned. I was just told I was doing 40mph. The whole of the "driver referral" slip has been completed in full but the part marked "recorded Speed MPH)-", has not been completed.
You don't have to be shown the reading but most officers do show it. The referral slip not having a speed marked on it is going to cause an issue in the office it is referred to because that is what they will use to decide on the disposal of the matter. I would think the speed is marked on the form sent to the office. Davo93 said:
4. Is speeding an absolute offence? Is there a said distance that they should have had the speed gun on me i.e I was travelling at 40mph over 200meters.
No set distance and the distance is irellevant as far as the accuracy of the speed measurement is concerned.Davo93 said:
Thanks in advance for your help.
You are welcome.Thank you all for your answers.
I know some will think it madness but I am pleading not guilty. There are a number of reasons for this. Essentially it will boil down to the officers "word" against mine, as there will be no physical evidence (photos, video evidence), except whatever was written down in their notebooks at the time.
I wasn`t shown the reading on the device, I was never "cautioned" or told I would be reported and I was never informed what speed I was actually driving at. As proof of this, I have the Driver Referral slip which I was given and the Officer completing it has forgotten to fill in what recorded speed I was allegedly caught at.This offence is all about the accuracy of the officers, and there are other parts of their statements (which I have) which are far from accurate and which I can prove without a doubt.
If anyone else can give me further help or assistance I`ll be grateful.
Thanks again.
I know some will think it madness but I am pleading not guilty. There are a number of reasons for this. Essentially it will boil down to the officers "word" against mine, as there will be no physical evidence (photos, video evidence), except whatever was written down in their notebooks at the time.
I wasn`t shown the reading on the device, I was never "cautioned" or told I would be reported and I was never informed what speed I was actually driving at. As proof of this, I have the Driver Referral slip which I was given and the Officer completing it has forgotten to fill in what recorded speed I was allegedly caught at.This offence is all about the accuracy of the officers, and there are other parts of their statements (which I have) which are far from accurate and which I can prove without a doubt.
If anyone else can give me further help or assistance I`ll be grateful.
Thanks again.
Davo93 said:
3. I wasn`t given a FPN but a "Driver Referral" slip, which was generated by a machine one of the officers had and it looks like a long till reciept which contains a number of details (similar to a FPN). Contrary to the officers statement, I was not shown the reading from the speed laser and I was never cautioned. I was just told I was doing 40mph. The whole of the "driver referral" slip has been completed in full but the part marked "recorded Speed MPH)-", has not been completed.
You don't have to be shown the reading but most officers do show it. The referral slip not having a speed marked on it is going to cause an issue in the office it is referred to because that is what they will use to decide on the disposal of the matter. I would think the speed is marked on the form sent to the office. Who is it going to cause an issue for? Me or the CPS? Surely it should have been filled in on the form?
agtlaw said:
Davo93 said:
Thank you all for your answers.
I know some will think it madness but I am pleading not guilty. There are a number of reasons for this....
I'd estimate your chance of success, being generous, at about 10%. You're aware of the cost consequences of a trial?I know some will think it madness but I am pleading not guilty. There are a number of reasons for this....
A question re signage.
In the officers statement, he states that the 30mph limit is not regularly posted along the road but indicated at either far end of the change of limit and that the limit should "be taken" by the residential built up area and spacing of street lamps no more than 200 yards apart, as illustrated by the highway code.
Where I was caught, the limit goes from a 40mph to a 30mph. I have found this on the net
It is a general principle that, where there is a change of speed limit, there must be sufficient notice of the new limit so as to allow the motorist to reduce his or her speed and comply with that limit.
It appears that there may be valid grounds of appeal. In Coombes v DPP [2006] EWHC 3263
(Admin) Mr Justice Walker stated (at paragraph 27):
‘There is a requirement that at the geographical point where the motorist exceeded the limit, the requisite signs could reasonably be expected to have conveyed the limit to an approaching motorist in sufficient time for the motorist to reduce from a previous lawful speed to a speed within the new limit.’
The signage must, therefore, be visible and of sufficient quality. If you were allegedly caught
speeding at a spot just after the speed limit has changed, you may have a successful defence if there was inadequate signage.
Surely the Officers reliance on the Highway Code is insufficient on its own?
In the officers statement, he states that the 30mph limit is not regularly posted along the road but indicated at either far end of the change of limit and that the limit should "be taken" by the residential built up area and spacing of street lamps no more than 200 yards apart, as illustrated by the highway code.
Where I was caught, the limit goes from a 40mph to a 30mph. I have found this on the net
It is a general principle that, where there is a change of speed limit, there must be sufficient notice of the new limit so as to allow the motorist to reduce his or her speed and comply with that limit.
It appears that there may be valid grounds of appeal. In Coombes v DPP [2006] EWHC 3263
(Admin) Mr Justice Walker stated (at paragraph 27):
‘There is a requirement that at the geographical point where the motorist exceeded the limit, the requisite signs could reasonably be expected to have conveyed the limit to an approaching motorist in sufficient time for the motorist to reduce from a previous lawful speed to a speed within the new limit.’
The signage must, therefore, be visible and of sufficient quality. If you were allegedly caught
speeding at a spot just after the speed limit has changed, you may have a successful defence if there was inadequate signage.
Surely the Officers reliance on the Highway Code is insufficient on its own?
agtlaw said:
Davo93 said:
Thank you all for your answers.
I know some will think it madness but I am pleading not guilty. There are a number of reasons for this....
I'd estimate your chance of success, being generous, at about 10%. I know some will think it madness but I am pleading not guilty. There are a number of reasons for this....
Davo93 said:
A question re signage.
In the officers statement, he states that the 30mph limit is not regularly posted along the road but indicated at either far end of the change of limit and that the limit should "be taken" by the residential built up area and spacing of street lamps no more than 200 yards apart, as illustrated by the highway code.
Where I was caught, the limit goes from a 40mph to a 30mph. I have found this on the net
It is a general principle that, where there is a change of speed limit, there must be sufficient notice of the new limit so as to allow the motorist to reduce his or her speed and comply with that limit.
It appears that there may be valid grounds of appeal. In Coombes v DPP ...
Surely the Officers reliance on the Highway Code is insufficient on its own?
Sounds like, even with 22 years of experience, you're barking up the wrong tree. The officer says that the limits are signed. There is no requirement for repeaters in a 30 limit where a system of street lighting is no more than 200 yards apart. Do a site visit?In the officers statement, he states that the 30mph limit is not regularly posted along the road but indicated at either far end of the change of limit and that the limit should "be taken" by the residential built up area and spacing of street lamps no more than 200 yards apart, as illustrated by the highway code.
Where I was caught, the limit goes from a 40mph to a 30mph. I have found this on the net
It is a general principle that, where there is a change of speed limit, there must be sufficient notice of the new limit so as to allow the motorist to reduce his or her speed and comply with that limit.
It appears that there may be valid grounds of appeal. In Coombes v DPP ...
Surely the Officers reliance on the Highway Code is insufficient on its own?
Your OP suggests you don't know how the device works, how it is calibrated or the significance thereof. Running a technical defence would likely prompt the CPS to haul in an expert at your expense to counter your arguments.
The fact you highlighted that you were pinged on a road which is "a very busy "A road" but NOT at that time on a Sunday night" would suggest that it is quite possible you drifted over the limit in such circumstances/attitude.
You appear to be trading on a matter of principal alone what is quite a simple offence for what is likely to be an expensive court visit with the same outcome. Under the normal run of things if you were absolutely sure of not breaking the limit, or the circumstances were such that the measured speed was mechanically impossible (e.g. cars being pinged at speeds faster than they're listed as being able to do - has happened) then I would've thought you'd have a shout.. but going into court not knowing how the device works or the process or significance of its calibration and daily checks - you're risking a lot I think.
The fact you highlighted that you were pinged on a road which is "a very busy "A road" but NOT at that time on a Sunday night" would suggest that it is quite possible you drifted over the limit in such circumstances/attitude.
You appear to be trading on a matter of principal alone what is quite a simple offence for what is likely to be an expensive court visit with the same outcome. Under the normal run of things if you were absolutely sure of not breaking the limit, or the circumstances were such that the measured speed was mechanically impossible (e.g. cars being pinged at speeds faster than they're listed as being able to do - has happened) then I would've thought you'd have a shout.. but going into court not knowing how the device works or the process or significance of its calibration and daily checks - you're risking a lot I think.
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