Will McLaren survive their Honda contract?

Will McLaren survive their Honda contract?

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FeelingLucky

Original Poster:

1,082 posts

163 months

Saturday 22nd August 2015
quotequote all
They must simply be hemorrhaging money at the moment, they will not be mid field competitive this year, nor next.

They have no title sponsor, and little hope of attracting one.

But most worrying of all is this weekend Honda have showed clearly how much they under estimate what is required. On a par with Ferrari?? What on earth was he thinking they still appear to be some considerable distance behind Renault to my eyes, even after their "substantial" step this w/e.

When this sorry mess comes to a sticky and acrimonious ens (as it surely will) where will they then go for an engine supply?

I sincerely hope it doesn't, being something of a fan, but I suspect the Honda deal will end the F1 team.

Daz68

3,346 posts

209 months

Saturday 22nd August 2015
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I am still amazed at this frustrating and embarrassing situation at Mclaren. How can a car with all the financial clout that Honda have still be so far behind and going backwards in development? It seems the chassis is desperate for a decent engine.

DrDeAtH

3,586 posts

231 months

Saturday 22nd August 2015
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Part of me wonders if either cosworth/ford could be persuaded.
Or, McLaren will build their own power unit.

Otherwise formula one will become formula Mercedes....

rdjohn

6,135 posts

194 months

Saturday 22nd August 2015
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Not the remotest chance of that one. Honda started too late and anyone else will be another 2 years behind, with parts of the engine being frozen next year. Audi are too smart to take this project on.

Formula Mercedes is a far more realistic proposition, with Ferrari and Renalt doing their own thing(s)

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Saturday 22nd August 2015
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
Formula Mercedes is a far more realistic proposition, with Ferrari and Renalt doing their own thing(s)
Or more likely, Formula Mercedes with Ferrari continuing to do their own think (with their B-team)

Will be like a return to the late 1970's when almost every team, was running the Ford DFV.

Mr_Thyroid

1,995 posts

226 months

Saturday 22nd August 2015
quotequote all
These are the percentage differences between the fastest and the fastest McLaren from each Q1. Obviously in some of those sessions the fastest overall will have been a Mercedes on the slower tyres.
No strong trend in either direction - if you ignore the first two races it's actually a slight negative trend.

Bel 1.9
Hun 2.0
Bri 1.6
Aus 2.2
Can 1.6
Mon 1.3
Spa 1.8
Bah 1.4
Chi 1.8
Mal 2.4
Aus 3.2

sirtyro

1,824 posts

197 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
From what I've heard from people I know at Mclaren, they will have a title sponsor soon.

They will stay with Honda as both teams need to save face. It's just not happening quickly enough for us fans. If it did go really bad with Honda then I think they will build their own engine. Mclaren Automotive is doing quite well and it would be a good platform to showcase what they can do.

I imagine Ron must be upset on one side that he isn't winning, but this performance is not doing his case in trying to buy out his Arab friends from Mclaren Group any harm at all wink

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
These are the percentage differences between the fastest and the fastest McLaren from each Q1. Obviously in some of those sessions the fastest overall will have been a Mercedes on the slower tyres.
No strong trend in either direction - if you ignore the first two races it's actually a slight negative trend.

Bel 1.9
Hun 2.0
Bri 1.6
Aus 2.2
Can 1.6
Mon 1.3
Spa 1.8
Bah 1.4
Chi 1.8
Mal 2.4
Aus 3.2
I don't think Q1 pace is a sensible yardstick - Mercedes are hardly trying most of the time, and neither are McLaren. Obviously for somewhat opposite reasons. The numbers for race fastest laps might be a bit better though.

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
They'll probably bump along the bottom until everything gets thrown up in the air again for 2017. I can't see how the Honda mess can get to be anything but mildly ok for next year.
Some of the larger teams have gone through hellish patches in their history, but come back. This is just a particularly ignominious one for all concerned.

road hog

2,561 posts

212 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
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what about the Mclaren Peugeot , pairing ,that didnt go to well either.. ??

FeelingLucky

Original Poster:

1,082 posts

163 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
road hog said:
what about the Mclaren Peugeot , pairing ,that didnt go to well either.. ??
True, but that deal came on the back of a stunningly successful few years with Honda when Mclaren were considered (one of) the top team(s).

Currently, they're the team ahead of Manor, with ten times the budget.

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
road hog said:
what about the Mclaren Peugeot , pairing ,that didnt go to well either.. ??
Never mind that, the 2013-2014 cars were very average, both with the best engines available, doesn't exactly inspire long term confidence in the team to overcome current issues.

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
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markcoznottz said:
road hog said:
what about the Mclaren Peugeot , pairing ,that didnt go to well either.. ??
Never mind that, the 2013-2014 cars were very average, both with the best engines available, doesn't exactly inspire long term confidence in the team to overcome current issues.
They've made major changes to the design team though - including acquiring several of the senior Red Bu staff

007 VXR

64,187 posts

186 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
If i heard it right, Honda did not want to race until 2016, but Mclaren push of this year ?

Mr_Thyroid

1,995 posts

226 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
road hog said:
what about the Mclaren Peugeot , pairing ,that didnt go to well either.. ??
By recent McLaren standards it was amazing. Eight podiums - 6 for Hakinnen 2 for Brundle. Different times, simpler engines, lost of testing. I remember it was unreliable (Brundle's fire ball at Silverstone), but from looking at those statistics I guess it was fairly quick, I also seem to remember Hakinnen would've won in Spain, when Schumacher was stuck in gear, had his engine not exploded.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
rscott said:
They've made major changes to the design team though - including acquiring several of the senior Red Bu staff
By all accounts the chassis and aero are "quite good". Not up to Mercedes standards probably, but certainly better than 17th. Since JB was relaxed enough to be pointing out errors in other teams' strategy this afternoon, I doubt it's too much of a handful to drive at that pace.

VolvoT5

4,155 posts

173 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
How do Honda catch up when they have so many issues and testing/development is heavily restricted? Not to mention the fact that they don't appear to want to hire outside expertise and McLaren's recent record on building a car chassis isn't exactly amazing either.

Over 50% of the season gone and they haven't achieved performance or reliability improvements as far as I can tell?

DanielSan

18,747 posts

166 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
sirtyro said:
From what I've heard from people I know at Mclaren, they will have a title sponsor soon.

They will stay with Honda as both teams need to save face. It's just not happening quickly enough for us fans. If it did go really bad with Honda then I think they will build their own engine. Mclaren Automotive is doing quite well and it would be a good platform to showcase what they can do.

I imagine Ron must be upset on one side that he isn't winning, but this performance is not doing his case in trying to buy out his Arab friends from Mclaren Group any harm at all wink
They were having a new title sponsor 'soon' at the start of last year... In the last 18 months they've become a very unlikeable team imo, no respect for their drivers, no direction when it comes to development, seemingly not a bd clue how to build an F1 car anymore and on top of all that we're back to suffering Ron speak!

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
DanielSan said:
sirtyro said:
From what I've heard from people I know at Mclaren, they will have a title sponsor soon.

They will stay with Honda as both teams need to save face. It's just not happening quickly enough for us fans. If it did go really bad with Honda then I think they will build their own engine. Mclaren Automotive is doing quite well and it would be a good platform to showcase what they can do.

I imagine Ron must be upset on one side that he isn't winning, but this performance is not doing his case in trying to buy out his Arab friends from Mclaren Group any harm at all wink
They were having a new title sponsor 'soon' at the start of last year... In the last 18 months they've become a very unlikeable team imo, no respect for their drivers, no direction when it comes to development, seemingly not a bd clue how to build an F1 car anymore and on top of all that we're back to suffering Ron speak!
Happens to the best of them. Williams has never really elevated itself to bring a genuine front running team since the Renault years. This mclaren debacle is almost identical to the Bmw- Williams relationship, albeit testing was allowed and Williams won a handful of races for Bmw. Consistent points eluded them, despite massive investment, and turned into an acrimonious relationship.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Sunday 23rd August 2015
quotequote all
FeelingLucky said:
True, but that deal came on the back of a stunningly successful few years with Honda when Mclaren were considered (one of) the top team(s).

Currently, they're the team ahead of Manor, with ten times the budget.
There was Ford in between for 1993.