Octane (Oct 2015) - Mazda MX5 Mk1: Now the sportscar to buy!

[g7jhp]

Spotted the headline but didn't get a chance to read the article, anyone seen it?

[NDNDNDND]

I just read the story, too. Bit of an odd article as it looks like a mk4 review but instead it's an mx5 history lesson followed by not very much on the mk4 at all - he just goes on about how light it is, which is a good thing I'll admit!

Frustrating to see him trot out the same old nonsense that it's 'vital' to buy a mk1 with power steering...

Personally I think they ought to offer the mk4 without power steering for people who actually like steering feel (and the tiny proportion of the car community who still know what that actually is!)

[MX-5 Lazza]

NDNDNDND said:

Frustrating to see him trot out the same old nonsense that it's 'vital' to buy a mk1 with power steering...

That's because he knows the Mk1 manual steering rack was a cheap bodge to give a cheapo base model and wasn't designed for the car

[Sad Weevil]

NDNDNDND said:

Frustrating to see him trot out the same old nonsense that it's 'vital' to buy a mk1 with power steering...

Personally I think they ought to offer the mk4 without power steering for people who actually like steering feel (and the tiny proportion of the car community who still know what that actually is!)

My thoughts exactly. I drove a mk4 the other day, and hated the steering. I said to the salesman that if Mazda produced a 'club sport' version with stripped down interior, further weight saving and manual steering, I might be interested. He just gave me a funny look.

[Sad Weevil]

MX-5 Lazza said:

That's because he knows the Mk1 manual steering rack was a cheap bodge to give a cheapo base model and wasn't designed for the car

Ah, that old myth....

[MX-5 Lazza]

Not a myth. It was designed to have PAS and they spent a lot of time and effort getting it just right.
When they needed to create a cheap base model they scavenged the racks for a non-PAS that could be made to fit. Non-PAS has only ever been offered on the cheapest models.

Have you ever seen a professional review, anywhere, ever, that said that the MX5, any model/year, could be improved by having a non-assisted rack?

[NDNDNDND]

In evo's top ten greatest drivers cars, I think Henry Catchpole described the power steering as 'surprisingly glassy', which certainly matches my experience of it being rather numb.

I run a depowered rack. Yes it's heavier, but so much more communicative it transforms the car.

[MX-5 Lazza]

NDNDNDND said:

In evo's top ten greatest drivers cars, I think Henry Catchpole described the power steering as 'surprisingly glassy', which certainly matches my experience of it being rather numb.

I run a depowered rack. Yes it's heavier, but so much more communicative it transforms the car.

De-powered is completely different from a non-PAS rack.

[Sad Weevil]

MX-5 Lazza said:

Not a myth. It was designed to have PAS and they spent a lot of time and effort getting it just right.
When they needed to create a cheap base model they scavenged the racks for a non-PAS that could be made to fit.

Bob Hall says one thing, some of the Mazda engineers say the opposite. The first cars to be shipped in Japan had manual steering. Pas was added later as an option. The rack is very similar to the pas one, mounted in exactly the same place, with a slightly slower ratio. You don't design a car around whether it has pas or not.

MX-5 Lazza said:

Non-PAS has only ever been offered on the cheapest models.

Not true, the M2 cars (the most expensive new) all had the standard manual rack.

MX-5 Lazza said:

Have you ever seen a professional review, anywhere, ever, that said that the MX5, any model/year, could be improved by having a non-assisted rack?

45 years of driving tells me more than 'professional' reviews. Many owners do think it's better, I'm not alone in this. My mk1 weighs about 960 kg, and runs on 14" lightweight wheels. Why does it need power steering?
At the end of the day, it's personal preference, there are no absolutes.

[NDNDNDND]

Sad Weevil said:

MX-5 Lazza said:

Not a myth. It was designed to have PAS and they spent a lot of time and effort getting it just right.
When they needed to create a cheap base model they scavenged the racks for a non-PAS that could be made to fit.

Bob Hall says one thing, some of the Mazda engineers say the opposite. The first cars to be shipped in Japan had manual steering. Pas was added later as an option. The rack is very similar to the pas one, mounted in exactly the same place, with a slightly slower ratio. You don't design a car around whether it has pas or not.

MX-5 Lazza said:

Non-PAS has only ever been offered on the cheapest models.

Not true, the M2 cars (the most expensive new) all had the standard manual rack.

MX-5 Lazza said:

Have you ever seen a professional review, anywhere, ever, that said that the MX5, any model/year, could be improved by having a non-assisted rack?

45 years of driving tells me more than 'professional' reviews. Many owners do think it's better, I'm not alone in this. My mk1 weighs about 960 kg, and runs on 14" lightweight wheels. Why does it need power steering?
At the end of the day, it's personal preference, there are no absolutes.

Some interesting info there - I'd heard of the M2 cars, but not read much about them. Sounds like some of the M2's were pretty interesting beasts: Widebody V6 anyone?
http://mazdaroadster.net/showthread.php?12-M2-CORP...

I've never understood the 'not designed for PAS' line, either. It's the same set-up, just a slower ratio... Admittedly there are things like scrub radius that get designed into a car but I've no idea if that's relevant to the MX-5.

Bob Hall often seems to get a lot of credit despite only being a journalist/product planner and not an engineer. As for the power steering being finely tuned, Hall's interests were in the American market where light steering is preferred, possibly explaining why the MX-5's power steering was so overboosted.

My only experience of an OEM manual rack is limited to a dozen laps of Brands Hatch, but even that told me that it communicated more than the PAS rack, although it wasn't the revelation that a depowered rack turned out to be.

The sad thing is, under current MOT regulations, you can remove the power steering from a car that was available without it, but if it was standard you cannot remove it. So all Mk4s are going to be stuck with electric steering unless the factory decides to do a 'clubsport' version with proper unassisted steering, which is unlikely given most car buyers stupidly think unassisted steering is undriveable.