Questions on negotiating a pay rise
Discussion
I started in my current role in July 2014. My probationary period ended in December 2014 and I had my end-of-probation appraisal. I received a 4% pay-rise at this point as per my initial contract (withholding £X amount until end of probation). Going forward, I was told my appraisals would be annually in December.
In June of this year, the commercial director (technically my line manager, but we have little day-to-day contact) wrote to me and awarded me a 3% pay-rise. This was based on good performance. As part of my role, I award pay rises to my own staff and company policy here is generally a 3% rise each year unless poor performance negates this.
So, while the 3% was very much appreciated, it wasn't "out of the ordinary".
The commercial director of the company is going to be leaving this month. As such, he has moved all manager appraisals forward to September in order to "round off" his tenure. Due to the appraisal and pay-rise being separate, I feel there is no specific time to negotiate on a raise and want to discuss this in my appraisal.
While the 3% is beneficial, it doesn't reflect my growing skill-set or ability. I am also performing well in the role and so on. I'd like to put forward a request for a much higher pay-rise to reflect that just over 12 months ago I was truly "junior" and inexperienced, but in a short time have proven my ability (as evidenced through strong commercial performance) and would like my pay to reflect that.
Questions
1) Would it be "too soon" to request another pay rise just 3 months after the last? I expect yes and am willing to wait until next June if that is a more appropriate time.
2) How much is too much? The figure I have in my mind is a 12% rise which sounds huge, but my salary isn't particularly large so it's not a large number in cash terms. The figure is a combination of bringing me in line to what I believe is correct for my role within the industry and rounding off to a full number (3% rises give very strange salaries). Is it going to back-fire going in too high, or should I aim high and let them bring me down? I'd be happy with perhaps 6 or 7% as it shows they're willing to recognise my ability beyond the standard reward.
4) Is it best to bring this up sooner in the appraisal, or toward the "anything else?" part near the end?
3) Is there something I'm not considering from a manager's perspective? While I manage staff myself, and have considered my responses to their request for a pay-rise, I feel my role is of a higher responsibility and should have more robust reasoning for a pay rise.
Thanks in advance, and apologies for a slightly word-heavy post!
In June of this year, the commercial director (technically my line manager, but we have little day-to-day contact) wrote to me and awarded me a 3% pay-rise. This was based on good performance. As part of my role, I award pay rises to my own staff and company policy here is generally a 3% rise each year unless poor performance negates this.
So, while the 3% was very much appreciated, it wasn't "out of the ordinary".
The commercial director of the company is going to be leaving this month. As such, he has moved all manager appraisals forward to September in order to "round off" his tenure. Due to the appraisal and pay-rise being separate, I feel there is no specific time to negotiate on a raise and want to discuss this in my appraisal.
While the 3% is beneficial, it doesn't reflect my growing skill-set or ability. I am also performing well in the role and so on. I'd like to put forward a request for a much higher pay-rise to reflect that just over 12 months ago I was truly "junior" and inexperienced, but in a short time have proven my ability (as evidenced through strong commercial performance) and would like my pay to reflect that.
Questions
1) Would it be "too soon" to request another pay rise just 3 months after the last? I expect yes and am willing to wait until next June if that is a more appropriate time.
2) How much is too much? The figure I have in my mind is a 12% rise which sounds huge, but my salary isn't particularly large so it's not a large number in cash terms. The figure is a combination of bringing me in line to what I believe is correct for my role within the industry and rounding off to a full number (3% rises give very strange salaries). Is it going to back-fire going in too high, or should I aim high and let them bring me down? I'd be happy with perhaps 6 or 7% as it shows they're willing to recognise my ability beyond the standard reward.
4) Is it best to bring this up sooner in the appraisal, or toward the "anything else?" part near the end?
3) Is there something I'm not considering from a manager's perspective? While I manage staff myself, and have considered my responses to their request for a pay-rise, I feel my role is of a higher responsibility and should have more robust reasoning for a pay rise.
Thanks in advance, and apologies for a slightly word-heavy post!
If your responsibilities have changed from those described in your contract to ones more aligned with more senior positions then you have every right to request a rise regardless of the time you do so.
It does sound like the company has quite a regimented process of pay awards so breaking out of this may prove challenging, though.
To help, I would suggest you think about the actual commercial benefits you now bring to the company. Think about what positive impact in money you have on the business and if you can align your request with this rather than something a little more 'vague' such as 'operational efficiencies' then you may find your request gets a better hearing.
12% does sound a big hike and they won't want to set a precedent so your thought of getting nearer to 6% is probably more on the money.
HTH
It does sound like the company has quite a regimented process of pay awards so breaking out of this may prove challenging, though.
To help, I would suggest you think about the actual commercial benefits you now bring to the company. Think about what positive impact in money you have on the business and if you can align your request with this rather than something a little more 'vague' such as 'operational efficiencies' then you may find your request gets a better hearing.
12% does sound a big hike and they won't want to set a precedent so your thought of getting nearer to 6% is probably more on the money.
HTH
NoNeed said:
jkh112 said:
So you have not changed roles or taken on additional responsibility and in 18 months have had a 7% pay rise, yet you want to ask for at least the same pay rise again?
I thoiught that but it's 7% in 10 months, I would be very grateful.The only true raise has been the 3% this summer, but it was done without any chance to negotiate or discuss it.
Within my role I've developed from essentially a 'junior' manager who relied heavily on a more senior manager for many decisions to one who is able to run the department with little outside input... It was very much stressed at my initial interview that I would be more junior than other staff at my level in the business due to my inexperience beforehand, but I feel I am now their equal. It's hard to know how much they're paid, but based on jobs advertised at competitor companies for similar roles, I'm being underpaid by a certain degree.
My question is really how to approach the topic without sounding ungrateful. I don't want to leave it because it feels "too soon" and then end up in the same position next year, wherein I receive a pay-rise of 3% with no prior discussion and never get out of the cycle.
In my mind, 3% is an inflationary rise to keep my income in line with the cost of living, rather than being of any true benefit or value. It is of course appreciated, but doesn't reflect what I bring to the company.
romeogolf said:
In my mind, 3% is an inflationary rise to keep my income in line with the cost of living, rather than being of any true benefit or value. It is of course appreciated, but doesn't reflect what I bring to the company.
You do realise that inflation is currently around 0.1%, so you are above a cost of living increase by 2.9%? I would make sure you know these kind of facts before trying to use them to negotiate. I think you're doing incredibly well.
10 months is a very small period of time in a company. If you'd been there 5-6 years and hadn't taken a dramatic step up - due to hugely increasing competence and responsibility, you might have a point.
That said, 3% for 'good' performance is superb.
10 months is a very small period of time in a company. If you'd been there 5-6 years and hadn't taken a dramatic step up - due to hugely increasing competence and responsibility, you might have a point.
That said, 3% for 'good' performance is superb.
davepoth said:
Just a thought - does you job title signify a "juniorness" compared to other managers? I'd concentrate on getting that fixed with the outgoing guy so that the conversation with the incoming guy is "I'm underpaid compared to my equals."
It doesn't. We have 3 'levels' within the company; Centre manager, senior centre manager and centre director. I'm a centre manager along with about 12 others, we've got 3 senior and 2 director.I think I'm being paid less than other centre managers - but it's hard to tell. All I know is what the assistance centre managers get paid and some of those with a few years experience are on sniffing distance of my own pay.
How have you brought in more profit to the company than the expectation from your manager? have you performed any extraordinary cost saving, have you performed a task that would usually have gone to a sub contractor?
How have you realised the company additional extraordinary profits?
Have you significantly out performed your peers? have you performed tasks that your manager would usually perform in order that he can accomplish his role in a more profitable manner?
Note the overuse of the word 'profit'
Also of note - these points are for your consideration and I don't care for actual answers.
How have you realised the company additional extraordinary profits?
Have you significantly out performed your peers? have you performed tasks that your manager would usually perform in order that he can accomplish his role in a more profitable manner?
Note the overuse of the word 'profit'
Also of note - these points are for your consideration and I don't care for actual answers.
Foliage said:
How have you brought in more profit to the company than the expectation from your manager? have you performed any extraordinary cost saving, have you performed a task that would usually have gone to a sub contractor?
How have you realised the company additional extraordinary profits?
Have you significantly out performed your peers? have you performed tasks that your manager would usually perform in order that he can accomplish his role in a more profitable manner?
Note the overuse of the word 'profit'
Yes. YTD the centre I run is 6% ahead of budgeted profit. I wouldn't be considering myself warranting a pay increase if we were behind budget.How have you realised the company additional extraordinary profits?
Have you significantly out performed your peers? have you performed tasks that your manager would usually perform in order that he can accomplish his role in a more profitable manner?
Note the overuse of the word 'profit'
TheAngryDog said:
whats a pay rise? you should be grateful for any raise in pay, I haven't seen a pay rise in almost 2 years, and given that I have had to change roles in that time which comes at more expense to me, I am actually worse off.
b
ks. Just because you can't get one doesn't mean anyone else can't or should be grateful for anything they get. If you know your worth, you can get it; either by getting a raise or moving.
It's simple once you realise no one gives a s
t about you unless you make them. p1stonhead said:
bks. Just because you can't get one doesn't mean anyone else can't or should be grateful for anything they get.
If you know your worth, you can get it; either by getting a raise or moving.
It's simple once you realise no one gives a st about you unless you make them.
^ Yup. You get what you settle for. Don't settle for working at a company that doesn't pay you what you're worth. Loyalty will not make you richer ;-)ks. Just because you can't get one doesn't mean anyone else can't or should be grateful for anything they get. If you know your worth, you can get it; either by getting a raise or moving.
It's simple once you realise no one gives a s
t about you unless you make them. RichwiththeS2000 said:
^ Yup. You get what you settle for. Don't settle for working at a company that doesn't pay you what you're worth. Loyalty will not make you richer ;-)
Oh, definitely. My last two moves were mainly for pay reasons (4% and then 8%) but I actually really quite like this company/job and would rather spend a little time here! 
All it comes down to is whether it's worth it to them, whether you could get paid that much elsewhere and if so how much it's going to cost them to hire someone else.
12% isn't necessarily very much. As just an employee I never stayed with a company more than 2 1/2 years and never moved jobs for less than a 20% raise. Not sure I had less than 5% annual rise within a company but definitely never as much as 10%. My experience suggests you might well be worth the money but, as comments in this thread show, some people can baulk at the idea of double digit percentage pay increases for existing employees even in more junior roles. No harm in asking and if they offer a bonus instead remember it won't be any use for negotiating salary at your next employer.
12% isn't necessarily very much. As just an employee I never stayed with a company more than 2 1/2 years and never moved jobs for less than a 20% raise. Not sure I had less than 5% annual rise within a company but definitely never as much as 10%. My experience suggests you might well be worth the money but, as comments in this thread show, some people can baulk at the idea of double digit percentage pay increases for existing employees even in more junior roles. No harm in asking and if they offer a bonus instead remember it won't be any use for negotiating salary at your next employer.
Thank you for the advice, guys.
For reference I've been told I will be awarded a 10% pay rise next year (June) based on 3 criteria being met, 6% on two of them and 4% if just one is met. I'll also be having a mid-way review around February/March to ensure I'm on track to meet the goals in place.
For reference I've been told I will be awarded a 10% pay rise next year (June) based on 3 criteria being met, 6% on two of them and 4% if just one is met. I'll also be having a mid-way review around February/March to ensure I'm on track to meet the goals in place.
romeogolf said:
Thank you for the advice, guys.
For reference I've been told I will be awarded a 10% pay rise next year (June) based on 3 criteria being met, 6% on two of them and 4% if just one is met. I'll also be having a mid-way review around February/March to ensure I'm on track to meet the goals in place.
Sounds like a good measured response from them. Should be easily traceable for progress by them and you. For reference I've been told I will be awarded a 10% pay rise next year (June) based on 3 criteria being met, 6% on two of them and 4% if just one is met. I'll also be having a mid-way review around February/March to ensure I'm on track to meet the goals in place.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff