Insuring your bike if the company owns it!

[TJ1406]

The old man is about to collect his new Harley (Road King Classic) and his insurers have decided they don't want to know. Problem is, it's registered to his business. He will be the only rider but insurers are running scared - why? Anyone out there know who we could talk to?

[LoonR1]

The bike is owned by a business and loaned to an employee. You've done this for tax reasons, expect to lose some of the savings in extra insurance premiums. The reason you're struggling is that you're ringing normal Persoanl Lines brokers and asking them to insure what is really a commercial risk. Time to ring your normal commercial broker and advise him what you've done a don see if he can place the risk for you. It will cost you more.

[Dog Star]

Care to comment on why ins cos take this approach, Loon? Genuine question. Unless the bike is used for commercial purposes, but lets assume (probably correctly) it's used just as you or I would use our bikes for SDP and the odd ride to work.

You know, I'm sure, that there's surely no more cost or risk to the ins co. why the shying away? Just another reason to mulct a few more quid from the punter? The "well you avoided tax" angle should be irrelevant.

I suffered the same thing many years agomwhen leasing my car as a one-man band company.

[Sheepshanks]

There isn't a "punter". It's a business to business engagement.

[moto_traxport]

Sheepshanks said:

There isn't a "punter". It's a business to business engagement.

It's also used for business reasons (allegedly) rather than the normal leisure use / commuting to and from a fixed place of work.

[TJ1406]

I think an assumption has been made that "you've done this for tax reasons" (although admittedly being able to claim the VAT back is quite useful!) I asked the question 'why are insurers running scared' when all we've done is be completely honest. The bike will be used as a preferred mode of transport if a customer wants a quote at their home address to repair or replace their domestic garage door. We have requested business use on this basis which isn't a problem but as soon as you mention the company owns the bike (just like it would a company car) they're not interested. I don't understand how an insurance company wouldn't want to consider this when there's nothing more involved than than a rideout to someone's address - no different to visiting your own friends and relatives! Class 1 business use covers this anyway but it's the fact that the company owns the bike seems to be the sticking point!

[Nigel Worc's]

I'm a non insurance person.

You have a specific and slightly unusual insurance request.

Do as Loon suggests (he is an insurance person), and contact a specialist broker.

I've followed his advice in the past and come up with results that have even surprised him.

I currently use these people and have done for a while now, http://www.autonetinsurance.co.uk/homepage/ppc?gcl...

There will be plenty of others.

[TJ1406]

Thanks Nigel, just the sort of reply I was after. I've just had a quick chat online with Autonet and I will follow it up on Monday.

[LoonR1]

TJ1406 said:

I think an assumption has been made that "you've done this for tax reasons" (although admittedly being able to claim the VAT back is quite useful!) I asked the question 'why are insurers running scared' when all we've done is be completely honest. The bike will be used as a preferred mode of transport if a customer wants a quote at their home address to repair or replace their domestic garage door. We have requested business use on this basis which isn't a problem but as soon as you mention the company owns the bike (just like it would a company car) they're not interested. I don't understand how an insurance company wouldn't want to consider this when there's nothing more involved than than a rideout to someone's address - no different to visiting your own friends and relatives! Class 1 business use covers this anyway but it's the fact that the company owns the bike seems to be the sticking point!

.

You've claimed the VAT back and the vehicle is a company asset not a personal one. If the business folds then the asset goes with the business. It's also higher risk as it may get stolen or torched to release some cash for the business of cash flow gets tight.

It shouldn't be used for personal use either unless you're declaring the BIk element (I think) although BIK is tricky on bikes as they're classes as plant.

Either way it's a lot riskier to an insurer than insuring Joe Bloggs on his own bike.

[black-k1]

I have heard of people who simple register the company owned bike in their name, as the keeper is not necessarily the owner, then insure it for business use in their own name!

[black-k1]

LoonR1 said:

Either way it's a lot riskier to an insurer than insuring Joe Bloggs on his own bike.

I think your definition of a lot differs quite considerably from my definition of a lot.

[LoonR1]

black-k1 said:

LoonR1 said:

Either way it's a lot riskier to an insurer than insuring Joe Bloggs on his own bike.

I think your definition of a lot differs quite considerably from my definition of a lot.

Well I guess I'll defer to your superior actuarial and underwriting experience and knowledge.

[black-k1]

LoonR1 said:

black-k1 said:

LoonR1 said:

Either way it's a lot riskier to an insurer than insuring Joe Bloggs on his own bike.

I think your definition of a lot differs quite considerably from my definition of a lot.

Well I guess I'll defer to your superior actuarial and underwriting experience and knowledge.

Please feel free to publish or link to the published figures that show the differences and we can all decide on our own definition of a lot.

[LoonR1]

black-k1 said:

Please feel free to publish or link to the published figures that show the differences and we can all decide on our own definition of a lot.

Errrrrr yeah. Insurance co allies all post their competitor data so that they can breach every competition law going and hand all their commercial advantage to their competitors.

Have a look and see if you can find supermarkets posting their supplier contracts, or any motorbike manufacturer quoting the prices they pay for parts.

You can't.

[black-k1]

LoonR1 said:

black-k1 said:

Please feel free to publish or link to the published figures that show the differences and we can all decide on our own definition of a lot.

Errrrrr yeah. Insurance co allies all post their competitor data so that they can breach every competition law going and hand all their commercial advantage to their competitors.

Have a look and see if you can find supermarkets posting their supplier contracts, or any motorbike manufacturer quoting the prices they pay for parts.

You can't.

So, to reiterate, I think your definition of a lot differs quite considerably from my definition of a lot.

[LoonR1]

black-k1 said:

So, to reiterate, I think your definition of a lot differs quite considerably from my definition of a lot.

So what? Set up your own insurance company then and insure him at whatever premium you think is correct.

[curlie467]

Tomaytoes Tomartoes.