Looking for a T350, advice appreciated.

Looking for a T350, advice appreciated.

Author
Discussion

Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Monday 28th September 2015
quotequote all
Good evening all,

I'm after a little bit of advice. I've been after a T350 for a while now and, having sold my car on Friday I'm now in a position to start looking more seriously. There are a few around at perhaps the lower end of the price scale (c. £25-27k) which would leave me with a reasonable war chest in the event of issues/the need to tinker with it a bit. However, they each have their pluses and minuses.

I guess the main question is, given two cars of similar price, one with a rebuild and one without, would I be foolish to go with the non engine rebuild? There are a few things that I would ideally like in m y first choice:
Obviously in good nick
Engine rebuild
Replacement/uprated shocks
New clutch
Air con
A colour that I like

All of the currently available ones are a compromise on some of these points, but if all were present bar the rebuild, would that be a reason to look elsewhere? I was at the Neil Garner open day at the weekend and a few of the people I spoke to were of the opinion that, as long as the car is looked after and the engine is warmed up properly there is no problem with the Speed 6.

Some of them are low mileage as expected, but having been for sale for a little while, they've probably not moved much recently. Would buying from a recognised dealer with a reasonable warranty be enough to allay any fears about lack of use? Presumably any issues coming to light would be rectified under the warranty.

As an additional query, there is one currently for sale from TVR-Mads which ticks all the boxes bar the colour, but it has been for sale for quite some time. Has anyone been to look at it, or knows the car, that might be able to enlighten me as to why this isn't moving?

One final question, how do people get on with the ground clearance on these? My last car would run aground a bit coming out the end of our lane due to the slope on the lane meeting the camber on the road, but this was pretty low, probably less than 100mm at the front overhang. I never had a problem with speed bumps/pillows and I presume these aren't too bad either but is there anything I should look out for as they're certainly pretty low at the rear.

Thanks for reading!

Ian

AOK

2,297 posts

166 months

Monday 28th September 2015
quotequote all
Welcome Yaan,

Some thoughts:
1- I (personally) don't like the idea of messing with colour. There aren't many of these around and I think we have a duty to maintain their provenance as close as possible. I may even write to English Heritage about listed-status wink
.... as such, I'd put colour quite high up my priority list

2- Winter is (traditionally) a good time to hunt as the prices can be slightly more attractive

3- don't jump the gun and compromise. I did that (bought a C which needed a rebuild) and whilst waiting for my turn at Powers the perfect T came up and so I part exchanged the project car!

4- don't loose out on one that ticks all your boxes because of price. Even if its £2-3k. Just borrow it. These are steadily going up in value and what seems 'expensive' now will shortly seem a steal

5- engines. so hard to say. there's so many different arguments. People throw around the term 'rebuild' very loosely, as if its something a car either has or hasn't. This just isn't the case... there are rebuilds and then there are 'rebuilds'. Who did it? Why was it carried out? Was it blue printed? Was the displacement increased? Is it the original block? Were the ancillaries improved to compliment any power increases? Does it still have a warranty? Who owned it when it was carried out and did they properly run it in for the first 1-2,000 miles etc etc!!!


If there's one point to end on: if you're buying a car that you are going to use often and enjoy, buy one from an owner who has been doing exactly the same. The more these are used, the less gremlins that develop. The ones with problems are often the garage queens which turn over very rarely. So whats the point of having ultra low mileage if its at the expense of rubbish reliability!? Mine will be approaching 60,000 miles next year and I couldn't give a damn! There's one on 200,000!

Good luck, and welcome

Edited by AOK on Monday 28th September 20:56

Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Monday 28th September 2015
quotequote all
Hi AOK,

Thanks for the welcome and your comments. Food for thought there.

The intention is that it will be a car that is used. I'm not particularly interested in a garage queen as my last car will attest to, although I do like to keep them looking something like it, so I'll take your advice and try and hunt down one that is owned by someone like minded. A number of the dealer ones advertised on here seem to be low mileage, and a few have been hanging around for a while so not getting a lot of use. Even at 60k miles that's still only 5000 a year for some of these cars so hardly over used.

There are a couple that I have my eye on that I'm waiting for some info about. If they seem good I may try to go and have look at them. I just need to exercise some restraint and make sure I don't buy the first one I try. Will power isn't necessarily my strong point!

Thanks,
Ian

RobertoBlanco

265 posts

129 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
AOK said:
Welcome Yaan,

Some thoughts:
1- I (personally) don't like the idea of messing with colour. There aren't many of these around and I think we have a duty to maintain their provenance as close as possible. I may even write to English Heritage about listed-status wink
.... as such, I'd put colour quite high up my priority list

2- Winter is (traditionally) a good time to hunt as the prices can be slightly more attractive

3- don't jump the gun and compromise. I did that (bought a C which needed a rebuild) and whilst waiting for my turn at Powers the perfect T came up and so I part exchanged the project car!

4- don't loose out on one that ticks all your boxes because of price. Even if its £2-3k. Just borrow it. These are steadily going up in value and what seems 'expensive' now will shortly seem a steal

5- engines. so hard to say. there's so many different arguments. People throw around the term 'rebuild' very loosely, as if its something a car either has or hasn't. This just isn't the case... there are rebuilds and then there are 'rebuilds'. Who did it? Why was it carried out? Was it blue printed? Was the displacement increased? Is it the original block? Were the ancillaries improved to compliment any power increases? Does it still have a warranty? Who owned it when it was carried out and did they properly run it in for the first 1-2,000 miles etc etc!!!


If there's one point to end on: if you're buying a car that you are going to use often and enjoy, buy one from an owner who has been doing exactly the same. The more these are used, the less gremlins that develop. The ones with problems are often the garage queens which turn over very rarely. So whats the point of having ultra low mileage if its at the expense of rubbish reliability!? Mine will be approaching 60,000 miles next year and I couldn't give a damn! There's one on 200,000!

Good luck, and welcome

Edited by AOK on Monday 28th September 20:56
Sorry to butt in Ian [TS], but this is on of the best, if not THE best posting I've read for some time.

T vs. C - You really have to think for some time to know if you want a Targa or not. For me this was highly desired, but in the end wasn't really in the upper part of my wanted list. Basically what you will get is a coupe, where you can either have a "sunroof" or not. The roof line without the bubbles is also much cleaner, if your an aesthete.The panels sometimes have trouble with tightness and latches. Also T's are much rarer and therefore more expensive. So for me nice to have, but with drawbacks. I chose mine on colour and miss out on the Targa tops instead.

Colour - This is one of the biggest selling points for me. I want lively, bright colours. Dark and boring colours are for family estates and compnay cars. These cars want to stand out. No need to go for colours which do not stand out as much, I feel the design comes alive even more with bright colours. A respray with colour change might be an option, but a very costly one (5k-10k).

Rebuild vs. no rebuild - For me this is a no brainer. The engine is in principle a good design. I think thats beyond dispute. When you don't do stupid things with the engine, the chances are high that it will be a reliable one. The more they are used, the less whoes they seem to have. So probably not the best idea to go simply by mileage. Most of the niggles should've been sorted with the later engines anyway, I'm told. With a rebuild you could get the same or new whoes, based on who rebuilds the engine. I was wondering why some engines had to be rebuild more than once with mileages < 100k. Either it's abuse/misuse or bad workmanship/parts from the first rebuild.
So for me a rebuild is not a guarantee, that the engine can go wrong in the future, especially when I do not properly warm up the oil, etc..
If you're after more displacement a rebuild can be the answer.

Shocks/Suspension - Personally this is the area where my T350 lacked the most and what I'd like to remedy in the future. I have a set of GAZ Gold Pro installed and the car still rides on its first bushings. I really would like to try out the standard shocks, since I'm not completely satisfied with how the GAZ behave on standard roads. Mine will get refurbed with stiffer springs and then I'll try to set them up again. Also new bushes.
So, why not original Bilstein shocks? I heard very good critique about their performance. You could always change later to aftermarket parts if you fancy.

Clutch/Slave/Master - This can be a PITA. The design of the slave cylinder is a rather messy one. They should've used a standard part from the market either hydraulic or mechanically operated. If not installed properly (and even then) slaves tend to fail pretty often. After that the master needs replacing, too.
Not too sure about the clutch. It's not the friction plates getting used up too quickly, but more due to the fingers breaking sometimes. I feel that most of the time it's a prob with the slave, not the clutch itself.
But always a good thing if it was replaced, because geting a clutch changed is a bigger bill.

Aircon - If you want to use the car the whole year and not always want to drive with the windows down you should buy one with Aircon. Not sure if they can still be refitted and if, it's big $$. IIRC it was 2k on mine (previous owner)

Chassis - When I see a TVR I look to the wheel arches first and try to see, if the frame is not only in good nick with intact powder coating, but also if the chassis has been cleaned where you can see the car was looked looked after. Maybe I'm a pedant, but I clean my chassis at least once a year also to inspect it, check bushings, shocks, etc.

Warranty - Always good to have, but don't shy away from private sales. Often the dealers cannot give you all the sensible info about the car, how it was treated, what has been done, why the owner is selling, etc. Also private sales should be cheaper. Advice: Buy from a fellow PHer or from a T350 owners group member on FB. The cars should well known in the community, you can get first hand info from the owner and I would presume that someone who is on the TVR section of PH cares about his car, which should be reflected in the cars' maintenance status.
Also bring an other knowlegdeable TVR owner with you, when looking at a car and testdriving it. They should give you pointers where to look and know how such cars should sound and drive.

Hope this helps.

thainy77

3,347 posts

198 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
See the link below, i was a previous owner and did 90% of the mods to the car at MADS.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
RobertoBlanco said:
Sorry to butt in Ian [TS], but this is on of the best, if not THE best posting I've read for some time.

T vs. C - You really have to think for some time to know if you want a Targa or not. For me this was highly desired, but in the end wasn't really in the upper part of my wanted list. Basically what you will get is a coupe, where you can either have a "sunroof" or not. The roof line without the bubbles is also much cleaner, if your an aesthete.The panels sometimes have trouble with tightness and latches. Also T's are much rarer and therefore more expensive. So for me nice to have, but with drawbacks. I chose mine on colour and miss out on the Targa tops instead.

Colour - This is one of the biggest selling points for me. I want lively, bright colours. Dark and boring colours are for family estates and compnay cars. These cars want to stand out. No need to go for colours which do not stand out as much, I feel the design comes alive even more with bright colours. A respray with colour change might be an option, but a very costly one (5k-10k).

Rebuild vs. no rebuild - For me this is a no brainer. The engine is in principle a good design. I think thats beyond dispute. When you don't do stupid things with the engine, the chances are high that it will be a reliable one. The more they are used, the less whoes they seem to have. So probably not the best idea to go simply by mileage. Most of the niggles should've been sorted with the later engines anyway, I'm told. With a rebuild you could get the same or new whoes, based on who rebuilds the engine. I was wondering why some engines had to be rebuild more than once with mileages < 100k. Either it's abuse/misuse or bad workmanship/parts from the first rebuild.
So for me a rebuild is not a guarantee, that the engine can go wrong in the future, especially when I do not properly warm up the oil, etc..
If you're after more displacement a rebuild can be the answer.

Shocks/Suspension - Personally this is the area where my T350 lacked the most and what I'd like to remedy in the future. I have a set of GAZ Gold Pro installed and the car still rides on its first bushings. I really would like to try out the standard shocks, since I'm not completely satisfied with how the GAZ behave on standard roads. Mine will get refurbed with stiffer springs and then I'll try to set them up again. Also new bushes.
So, why not original Bilstein shocks? I heard very good critique about their performance. You could always change later to aftermarket parts if you fancy.

Clutch/Slave/Master - This can be a PITA. The design of the slave cylinder is a rather messy one. They should've used a standard part from the market either hydraulic or mechanically operated. If not installed properly (and even then) slaves tend to fail pretty often. After that the master needs replacing, too.
Not too sure about the clutch. It's not the friction plates getting used up too quickly, but more due to the fingers breaking sometimes. I feel that most of the time it's a prob with the slave, not the clutch itself.
But always a good thing if it was replaced, because geting a clutch changed is a bigger bill.

Aircon - If you want to use the car the whole year and not always want to drive with the windows down you should buy one with Aircon. Not sure if they can still be refitted and if, it's big $$. IIRC it was 2k on mine (previous owner)

Chassis - When I see a TVR I look to the wheel arches first and try to see, if the frame is not only in good nick with intact powder coating, but also if the chassis has been cleaned where you can see the car was looked looked after. Maybe I'm a pedant, but I clean my chassis at least once a year also to inspect it, check bushings, shocks, etc.

Warranty - Always good to have, but don't shy away from private sales. Often the dealers cannot give you all the sensible info about the car, how it was treated, what has been done, why the owner is selling, etc. Also private sales should be cheaper. Advice: Buy from a fellow PHer or from a T350 owners group member on FB. The cars should well known in the community, you can get first hand info from the owner and I would presume that someone who is on the TVR section of PH cares about his car, which should be reflected in the cars' maintenance status.
Also bring an other knowlegdeable TVR owner with you, when looking at a car and testdriving it. They should give you pointers where to look and know how such cars should sound and drive.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for this. It gives me some more to think about...although I'm afraid I'm going to start over thinking it all before long! I take it when you refer to the engine rebuild as being a no-brainer, you think that it's not an essential? That's pretty much my way of thinking, and that it's possibly a nice to have. I've found one with a Powers 4.3l rebuild with over 2 years left on the warranty which one to consider.

Out of interest, things like clutch replacement, is DIY an option? I removed, rebuilt (inc. clutch change) and replaced the engine in my last car so in the event of needing a new clutch, is this possibly something I could do myself, thus reducing the price a little.

With regard to taking a knowledgeable owner with me when looking at cars, if I were to buy a car from a recognised TVR specialist, I presume that this would mostly negate the need for this? I would hope that any reputable dealer of such a niche product would be pretty open and honest about their cars, or am I being a bit naïve?

Thanks for your input on this!
Ian

Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
thainy77 said:
See the link below, i was a previous owner and did 90% of the mods to the car at MADS.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thanks for the link. Did you get any feedback on the current state of the car after that? It seems to have been for sale from there for well over a year now and not going, despite having what one would think are all the desirable modifications.

Thanks,
Ian

Milky400

1,960 posts

178 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
I bought from a well respected dealer and it was a nightmare when it showed signs of an engine rebuild being needed and this was 50 miles after collecting. Warranty was capped at £1-2k from memeory and after two independant report, the dealer reluctantly refunded me.

All in all an 8-10 week process and alot of my own time and money wasted travelling too and from the two main engine rebuilders. Believe it or not he tried reselling the car the day i returned it knowing of its faults, some more serious/dangerous than the engine rebuild.

This car has since been sold as i have seen pictures of it at the recent TVRCC event at Milbrook. I just hope that the dealer did the decent thing and either repaired the faults or made the poor buyer fully aware of its engine and dangerous chassis issues

Long story short, dont discount private purchases, ive not looked back since.

Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
Milky400 said:
I bought from a well respected dealer and it was a nightmare when it showed signs of an engine rebuild being needed and this was 50 miles after collecting. Warranty was capped at £1-2k from memeory and after two independant report, the dealer reluctantly refunded me.

All in all an 8-10 week process and alot of my own time and money wasted travelling too and from the two main engine rebuilders. Believe it or not he tried reselling the car the day i returned it knowing of its faults, some more serious/dangerous than the engine rebuild.

This car has since been sold as i have seen pictures of it at the recent TVRCC event at Milbrook. I just hope that the dealer did the decent thing and either repaired the faults or made the poor buyer fully aware of its engine and dangerous chassis issues

Long story short, dont discount private purchases, ive not looked back since.
That's not good to hear! I'm certainly happy to buy privately, it's just a case of finding private ones for sale. All of the ones on here are trade sales apart from one which is up for £38k which is more than I'm intending on spending. Typically there were a few private sales when I first started looking to sell my car to fund this but seems that they're all sold now....a bit of patience is needed here I think.

Thanks!

billynobrakes

2,675 posts

265 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
No mater what TVR you buy there will always be something that wants doing or something you will want to do, I bought my T350 and to date I have spent in excess of £20,000 on it and there are still things I want done, mind you one big expense was the 4.5 from powers which I love

My advice is either buy one at a reasonable cost, like I did knowing it needed money spent on it or buy one that has had most and I mean most things done to it, the one at TVR Mads is great value as it has a 4.3 engine built by Powers and they put their money where their mouth is and give a guarantee like no other company which speaks volumes to me, you are not happy with the colour my advice is go and have a look they always look different in the flesh, check the chassis but most T350,s chassis should be in good condition, check when clutch was changed in my experience they should last about 20-25,000 miles nut that depends on how it has been driven, they do drive better with better shocks so check what is on them we all have our preferances for shocks my one had Gaz Golds on and I could not get on with them some people do like them though, I have Gaz Montubes which I much prefer again it is you get what you pay for, they al suffer with minor electrical problems so be prepared to have to sort some things out but as you say you will have some fighting fund money of which I always factor in,

One other thing you will always have to compromise when you but a car with limited funds same as a house so be prepared that you will not get the exact one you want or trust me it will drive you mad

I like my one as I think they look mean in black

if you have mot driven one take a 3.6 out then a 4.3

Here is my one I nearly put her up for sale but the madness soon passed smile

billynobrakes

2,675 posts

265 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
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Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
billynobrakes said:
Oops photo did not load





Lovely!! If the madness re-asserts itself and you decide to sell let me know smile

chris watton

22,477 posts

260 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
billynobrakes said:
Oops photo did not load





Just realised, my Tam was parked directly opposite to yours at Neil garner's on Saturday!

tunepipe911

518 posts

149 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
Hi

you could put your question on the T350 owners Facebook page as well,
well over a houndred t350c & t owners and 1 or 2 for sale as well,

goood luck with the search

another colorchoise

monty quick

230 posts

236 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
There are some good comments here:
My quick comments would be- I purchased a T because I wanted one (roof is noisy but I still love it). I paid as much as I could afford. I get it serviced professionally, drive it a lot and drive it hard. I haven't spent any additional money on the car because I can't afford to and haven't needed to.
There are more C's available and they will be slightly cheaper.
Of course you should get a colour you like but try to keep your options open.
If you cannot get a post 2004 car a rebuild will give you peace of mind. As already commented you need to understand what has been 'rebuilt'.
In my opinion the standard suspension is great for road and the odd track day. I would not worry about a suspension upgrade unless you are going to do serious track work.
The general advice is to go for the best condition not the newest reg. and try to find a car that has been owned by an enthusiast.
Good luck, I'm sure you will not regret choosing a T350

AOK

2,297 posts

166 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
RobertoBlanco said:
Sorry to butt in Ian [TS], but this is on of the best, if not THE best posting I've read for some time.
Thanks Robert!

Arthur smile

AOK

2,297 posts

166 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
tunepipe911 said:
Hi

you could put your question on the T350 owners Facebook page as well,
well over a houndred t350c & t owners and 1 or 2 for sale as well,

goood luck with the search

another colorchoise
Tunepip... this is VERY random, but you weren't London bound from Calais on the evening of 23rd August in this by any chance?

tunepipe911

518 posts

149 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
tunepipe911 said:
Hi

you could put your question on the T350 owners Facebook page as well,
well over a houndred t350c & t owners and 1 or 2 for sale as well,

goood luck with the search

another colorchoise
by the way ,I prefer T model as it is less warm in hot weather with the roofpanels off,a good aircon does the job as well,
but the open air is a different thing,

R,

Yaaan

Original Poster:

58 posts

113 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
tunepipe911 said:
by the way ,I prefer T model as it is less warm in hot weather with the roofpanels off,a good aircon does the job as well,
but the open air is a different thing,

R,
Another nice option smile I've got used to open top motoring in my last car (VX220) and think a T would be nice but given how few of them are about I'm not going to hold out specifically for one, although if one came up for sale at a price that was right.... smile

tunepipe911

518 posts

149 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
quotequote all
AOK said:
Tunepip... this is VERY random, but you weren't London bound from Calais on the evening of 23rd August in this by any chance?
sorry,no
must be another T driving in the same color,
unless someone used mine without me knowing(lol)

Rudy