Cargo ship El Faro lost in Bermuda Triangle

Cargo ship El Faro lost in Bermuda Triangle

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Discussion

Stevanos

Original Poster:

700 posts

137 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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33 persons onboard, seems they cruised right in to the middle of a large hurricane, more here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/h...

Given the storm was very well forecast, I wonder what has gone on here!

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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Otispunkmeyer

12,586 posts

155 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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Updates to that site suggest they've decided it's probably sunk at or near its last known location. Reports were that the ship had lost propulsion and took water on giving a list. But that it was under control. The report says they've spotted debris like life rings and an empty, battered life raft. No survivors yet.

markmullen

15,877 posts

234 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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One crewman found sadly deceased. Due to conditions they couldn't even recover his body, a very sad call to have to make.

belleair302

6,843 posts

207 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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I understand it was only around 224m long and weighing around 31,500 tonnes.With the waves close to 50 ft and containers on deck and with winds of over 130 mph it was never going to stand a chance, if something broke loose or the ship took on water. Power fails.....wind turns the ship and over it goes, sinks fast and is now 12,000 ft under the Atlantic. Tragic. What on earth were they doing setting sail with the sea forecasts looking dreadful.

Fishtigua

9,786 posts

195 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Box boats full of 700 boxes and only going from JAX down to Puerto Rico should have been nowhere near there. It's a short, quick trip anyway.

Running really close down the FLA coast would have been much safer, not poughing straight into the teeth of the bleeding storm. 20/20 hindsight and all, but it's not sodding rocket science.

Would an economic elbow from management have shoved them in that shorter direction?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/...

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

279 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Poor sods.

Don't container ships have those orange lifeboat things that launch on a slide from the stern?


markmullen

15,877 posts

234 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Ayahuasca said:
Poor sods.

Don't container ships have those orange lifeboat things that launch on a slide from the stern?
They can have, this one had two open lifeboats which needed to be manually launched.

Magog

2,652 posts

189 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Is a US flagged ship, with such a large number of American crew members unusual in that part of the world, I was under the impression that they mainly sailed under flags of convenience with crews from emerging economies? And is 40 years old not very old for a container ship these days (wiki quotes the average age of container ships in 2009 as 10.6 years, and the average age of those scrapped in 2009 was 27 years?

DJFish

5,921 posts

263 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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markmullen said:
Ayahuasca said:
Poor sods.

Don't container ships have those orange lifeboat things that launch on a slide from the stern?
They can have, this one had two open lifeboats which needed to be manually launched.
Which, in this day and age, and in this case seems woefully inadequate.
Poor sods.

US is still covered by the Jones act so plenty of US flagged & crewed ships round those parts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_...



ninja-lewis

4,241 posts

190 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
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Magog said:
Is a US flagged ship, with such a large number of American crew members unusual in that part of the world, I was under the impression that they mainly sailed under flags of convenience with crews from emerging economies? And is 40 years old not very old for a container ship these days (wiki quotes the average age of container ships in 2009 as 10.6 years, and the average age of those scrapped in 2009 was 27 years?
No. The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (known as the 'Jones Act') requires that all goods transported by water between US ports be carried on US-flagged ships, constructed in the US, owned by US citizens and mainly crewed by US citizens. As a US territory, Puerto Rico counts as a US port.

A very controversial law in the States. Puerto Rico blames partly blames it for the economic woes of the island - the cost of imports from the US to Puerto Rico is double that of independent Caribbean islands, particularly as foreign ships cannot load/unload at Puerto Rico on the way to/from the mainland. The oil industry also wants to repeal it as it makes it three times more expensive to export refined products from the Gulf to the US east coast ports as to foreign ports.

Little incentive to scrap ships given the high cost of a new US built ship compared to Korean built competitors and the uncertainty surrounding the future of the Jones Act. Hence the high average age of Jones Act ships.

Incidentally it's not a container ship. It's a Roll-on/Roll-off with containers stacked above the vehicle deck. Unfortunately the large open vehicle deck makes it very vulnerable to capsizing if water enters it and sloshes around.

Fishtigua

9,786 posts

195 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
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Thanks for that extra info, makes for a more complete picture.

I've been screwed over, and my brother, by the Jones Act. It's bloody stupid.

Popeyed

543 posts

219 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
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Just
ninja-lewis said:
Magog said:
Is a US flagged ship, with such a large number of American crew members unusual in that part of the world, I was under the impression that they mainly sailed under flags of convenience with crews from emerging economies? And is 40 years old not very old for a container ship these days (wiki quotes the average age of container ships in 2009 as 10.6 years, and the average age of those scrapped in 2009 was 27 years?
No. The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (known as the 'Jones Act') requires that all goods transported by water between US ports be carried on US-flagged ships, constructed in the US, owned by US citizens and mainly crewed by US citizens. As a US territory, Puerto Rico counts as a US port.

A very controversial law in the States. Puerto Rico blames partly blames it for the economic woes of the island - the cost of imports from the US to Puerto Rico is double that of independent Caribbean islands, particularly as foreign ships cannot load/unload at Puerto Rico on the way to/from the mainland. The oil industry also wants to repeal it as it makes it three times more expensive to export refined products from the Gulf to the US east coast ports as to foreign ports.

Little incentive to scrap ships given the high cost of a new US built ship compared to Korean built competitors and the uncertainty surrounding the future of the Jones Act. Hence the high average age of Jones Act ships.

Incidentally it's not a container ship. It's a Roll-on/Roll-off with containers stacked above the vehicle deck. Unfortunately the large open vehicle deck makes it very vulnerable to capsizing if water enters it and sloshes around.
She was a ConRo, popular on that trade. If you look at pictures of the ship, she had openings in the hull below main deck level, not a good design feature when your main engine has failed in heavy weather. By a twist of fate I saw this ship in Jacksonville a few weeks ago, the vessel intrigued me as she was was obviously elderly. Rest in peace lads.

Stevanos

Original Poster:

700 posts

137 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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They called off the search now, sad that this could happen.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Tuesday 19th March 2019
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Blast from the past.

NTSB review of SS El Faro loss.

After reading a lot of the NTSB air crash investigation reports I thought I sort of knew how it would be, but it is the most comprehensive accident report ever, from spending months getting the data, to reporting all that data.

And it is a lot of data, from the report to the VDR log. If you read it all you actually get a feeling for the whole thing, how it transpired and where the gaps or problems were.

NTSB report

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreport...

VDR "bridge voice"

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3237729-El...

If you read internet comments now of course you just see that the captain was an imbecile and just sent them to their deaths. frown

I would recommend anyone interested in why accidents happen to read the above. It shows the problems from company, to ship and then to the last hours and minutes.

It's actually a report where nobody comes off well, and I mean everyone.