BMW 330i or Mondeo ST220
Discussion
I looked at a few E46 330i last year, however gave up as they were either overpriced or complete rotboxes. If you can find a nice and clean one they are still lovely looking things, especially a late sport model.
Did look at St220's too but they were no better, went for something else in the end.
Did look at St220's too but they were no better, went for something else in the end.
I had a manual 330Ci sport a few years back and it was in many ways a great car, comfortable, well made, quite quick with a very smooth engine, economical and reliable, handled well (although the ride was harsher than it should have been for the standard of the handling – nowhere near the ride/handling trade-off of an M car).
Then a mate bought an ST220. I felt a bit sorry for him at first, but when I travelled in it as a passenger I was secretly impressed – it was fast and sounded great. He managed to carry tons of speed through the corners and told me the steering was great. Eventually I ended up driving it. It handled far better than a big FWD has any right to (although I did find out it was something like 50 or 100 kg lighter than the BMW). The steering was indeed very special, and although it was less torquey than the 330 and felt softer at low revs, it really came to life at the upper end of the revs in a way that the BMW couldn’t quite match. It felt at least as quick as the 330, when driven hard with appropriate choice of gears.
In the end I bought an ST and didn’t regret it at all. People will point out that it's a bit more thirsty but so what. I no longer have it but it is a very good memory.
Then a mate bought an ST220. I felt a bit sorry for him at first, but when I travelled in it as a passenger I was secretly impressed – it was fast and sounded great. He managed to carry tons of speed through the corners and told me the steering was great. Eventually I ended up driving it. It handled far better than a big FWD has any right to (although I did find out it was something like 50 or 100 kg lighter than the BMW). The steering was indeed very special, and although it was less torquey than the 330 and felt softer at low revs, it really came to life at the upper end of the revs in a way that the BMW couldn’t quite match. It felt at least as quick as the 330, when driven hard with appropriate choice of gears.
In the end I bought an ST and didn’t regret it at all. People will point out that it's a bit more thirsty but so what. I no longer have it but it is a very good memory.
I think they're rather different sorts of cars. The ST is an overtly sporty car with traditional OTT body-kit and rather uncomfortable suspension. The 330i is a standard saloon which happens to have a rather lovely engine and a very well balanced chassis.
Personally I prefer the 330i because despite lacking the overt sportiness of the Mondeo it still handles better, has a nicer engine and looks better (at least to my eyes). The Mondeo is probably more fun to throw around a track, but I wouldn't buy either for that purpose. I can quite see why someone would buy the Mondeo, but it would never be on my shopping list.
Personally I prefer the 330i because despite lacking the overt sportiness of the Mondeo it still handles better, has a nicer engine and looks better (at least to my eyes). The Mondeo is probably more fun to throw around a track, but I wouldn't buy either for that purpose. I can quite see why someone would buy the Mondeo, but it would never be on my shopping list.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th October 14:07
Dave_ST220 said:
OTT body kit? Can't agree with that. Nor would I describe the suspension as uncomfortable.
Different people have different priorities, I suppose. I certainly don't think it's a bad car, it's just not the sort of car I like. For what it's worth I'd also describe the M-Sport 3-series as having uncomfortable (not to mention poorly damped) suspension and an OTT body-kit; SE all the way for me. 
And before you point out that I own an Octavia VRS, yes I'd say that looks over the top too but it's the wife's and she likes it.
ETA: Mind you all of the cars in question look subtly handsome compared to almost anything on sale today.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th October 14:11
caelite said:
MG ZS? Fills your criteria, cheap as all hell because Rover, probably one of the best handling FWD cars of its time. They also sound lovely and like to rev (provided your not afflicted with the inlet mani issue that affects a lot of old KV6s).
if they are that good why are they so cheap and forgotten? genuinely curious.ambuletz said:
caelite said:
MG ZS? Fills your criteria, cheap as all hell because Rover, probably one of the best handling FWD cars of its time. They also sound lovely and like to rev (provided your not afflicted with the inlet mani issue that affects a lot of old KV6s).
if they are that good why are they so cheap and forgotten? genuinely curious.kambites said:
Different people have different priorities, I suppose. I certainly don't think it's a bad car, it's just not the sort of car I like. For what it's worth I'd also describe the M-Sport 3-series as having uncomfortable (not to mention poorly damped) suspension and an OTT body-kit; SE all the way for me.
And before you point out that I own an Octavia VRS, yes I'd say that looks over the top too but it's the wife's and she likes it.
ETA: Mind you all of the cars in question look subtly handsome compared to almost anything on sale today.
You must be very reserved And before you point out that I own an Octavia VRS, yes I'd say that looks over the top too but it's the wife's and she likes it.
ETA: Mind you all of the cars in question look subtly handsome compared to almost anything on sale today.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th October 14:11
OTT to me is Escort Cosworth or Focus RS MK2 style....Dave_ST220 said:
You must be very reserved OTT to me is Escort Cosworth or Focus RS MK2 style....
Maybe. The ST220 is probably the better "sports saloon" of the two both in terms of looks and how it drives; but the 330i SE is the better car, IMO. OTT to me is Escort Cosworth or Focus RS MK2 style....For me the mk2 Focus RS is a "close my eyes as it goes past to hide the hideousness and hope I don't hit anything" sort of car.
kambites said:
Maybe. The ST220 is probably the better "sports saloon" of the two both in terms of looks and how it drives; but the 330i SE is the better car, IMO.
Never driven one, there was a guy in the Ford section who came from one to the 220 & rated the Ford as much better. I don't really get posts like this, you aren't seriously going to buy your next car based on a forum's opinion! Drive both, decide which you prefer & buy one. Asking about common faults would be a better way to go IMO.....
Especially with two cars which are so different in character as these. I suspect one of them will be what you want and the other wont. I guess it depends what you're after. It would be an easy decision for me comparing a transverse engine front wheel drive car with a longitudinal engine rear drive car, but that's my priorities - yours may be different. No doubt I will now be told I'm wrong, but that's just PH for you... 
I'd be wary of an early 330i, my 330ci was the worst car I've ever owned (along with many other PHers who said the same on a recent thread), but they did improve them after 2002 and if you want a silky smooth engine, relaxing quiet drive with superb balance and poise in the corners, then you can't go far wrong. Even post 2002 though they're far from perfect - I'm no fan of the way the TC element of the DSC works by grabbing single rear brakes and as a whole the DSC is a really sleepy system that's always two steps behind you and very slow both in intervening and letting you get on with things again. The steering's a bit lifeless too, so although it drives better than many sports cars, it doesn't feel like one. Personally I prefer the E36 that preceded it, which I owned before (a 325i) and after (a 328i SC) my E46 330ci, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth now and finding a decent one may be tricky. Looking to the nexct model on, the E90 isn't as pretty as the E46 (imho), but in my opinion they drive a lot better, along with the 1 series released around the same time, so if you can save a bit more and find a nice 130i or 330i from that model range, I would personally do that. It's the same silky smooth straight six, just wrapped in a more accomplished package.
I'd be wary of an early 330i, my 330ci was the worst car I've ever owned (along with many other PHers who said the same on a recent thread), but they did improve them after 2002 and if you want a silky smooth engine, relaxing quiet drive with superb balance and poise in the corners, then you can't go far wrong. Even post 2002 though they're far from perfect - I'm no fan of the way the TC element of the DSC works by grabbing single rear brakes and as a whole the DSC is a really sleepy system that's always two steps behind you and very slow both in intervening and letting you get on with things again. The steering's a bit lifeless too, so although it drives better than many sports cars, it doesn't feel like one. Personally I prefer the E36 that preceded it, which I owned before (a 325i) and after (a 328i SC) my E46 330ci, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth now and finding a decent one may be tricky. Looking to the nexct model on, the E90 isn't as pretty as the E46 (imho), but in my opinion they drive a lot better, along with the 1 series released around the same time, so if you can save a bit more and find a nice 130i or 330i from that model range, I would personally do that. It's the same silky smooth straight six, just wrapped in a more accomplished package.
couldn't agree more!lee_erm said:
Rear sub-frames have a habit of detaching themselves from e46's, especially ones with bigger engines. Regardless of that I'd go for a saloon ST220.
This problem mainly affected pre-facelift coupes. You're not guaranteed to dodge it on any e46, but given all 330s are post-facelift (from a mechanical if not cosmetic) viewpoint and OP is after a saloon then it's by no means a dealbreaker. It's worth noting that mk3 mondeos have a habit of eating rear subframe bushes too.It's a lovely problem to have. ST220 is marginally more practical given the hatchback and arguably a little more 'special'. BMW is more comfy but a nice steer nonetheless, and a nicer car to sit inside. Both are brilliant, frankly.
If you do go for an ST220, avoid the 5 speeds. The 6th gear makes a significant difference to economy and refinement at motorway speeds.
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