Would a Z4 Coupe be a good upgrade for me?
Discussion
Currently driving an FN2 Civic Type-R. Its a great car, but it really needs some money spending to make it handle and brake better. Otherwise though, its got a fantastic engine, and its plenty fast enough for me.
However, as always with a Type-R, it really seems to need to be thrashed to in any way entertaining, so I tend to drive like a hooligan more often than not.
I think I've also been spoiled with driving past cars like a 350Z, MR2 Turbo and a pair of MX5s.
I could spend the money modding the Civic, but I think perhaps I really yearn another rear driver?
So I've been thinking about this for a while. I thought about another Z, but... been there, done that. I thought about Boxster, mid-engine is nice, but for my budget, I'll likely be asking for trouble, the bork factor seems fairly high. I thought about VX220 but too raw, and they've gone up loads in price, Elise also too raw (I've got to do some long journeys for work occasionally). RX8 too thirsty and gutless even though they handle well (also my mate has one).
Eventually I got to the Z4. I've had a couple of beemers and found them very competent but slightly dull... but they were an E36 and E46 328. I would imagine its a different story with a Z4, and I prefer the coupe - no roof to go wrong, slightly more rare and I absolutely love the way they look. I suspect they are a future classic.
Only concerns are some concerns about the hydraulic lifters, but it seems it doesn't really harm the engine, and it may be fixed by a previous owner. Some of them are starship mileages too (WELL north of 100K), are these motors good for it?
There are some alternatives from the BMW stable, such as the 130i, totally different type of car though, and I'm guessing not as special? Doesn't really need to be practical but if it was as good from a drivers point of view then I'd certainly consider it, a few cosmetic mods can have them looking nice.
Finally, I could go for the budget option, a 325ti. I've been told that the E46 325ti is the best E46 drivers car aside from the M3, even eclipsing the 330Ci. Lighter, smaller, and seemingly set up for fun, it even has the induction noise piped to the cabin like the Z4!
I do have a slight worry that the Z4 would feel somewhat like a 3-series to drive, which isn't an insult to the 3-series, but it wouldn't really cut the mustard for a sports car, but that being said, I can't see that being the case? Especially the coupe looks very special to me.
As for the car, I'd want something that wasn't going to cause me many expensive issues, and lifters issue aside, it seems that the n52s are good engines.
I almost feel as though the Z4C is the closest thing to a TVR (though obviously a lot more civilised and reliable) from the Germans and that would appeal to me greatly. Any thoughts?
However, as always with a Type-R, it really seems to need to be thrashed to in any way entertaining, so I tend to drive like a hooligan more often than not.
I think I've also been spoiled with driving past cars like a 350Z, MR2 Turbo and a pair of MX5s.
I could spend the money modding the Civic, but I think perhaps I really yearn another rear driver?
So I've been thinking about this for a while. I thought about another Z, but... been there, done that. I thought about Boxster, mid-engine is nice, but for my budget, I'll likely be asking for trouble, the bork factor seems fairly high. I thought about VX220 but too raw, and they've gone up loads in price, Elise also too raw (I've got to do some long journeys for work occasionally). RX8 too thirsty and gutless even though they handle well (also my mate has one).
Eventually I got to the Z4. I've had a couple of beemers and found them very competent but slightly dull... but they were an E36 and E46 328. I would imagine its a different story with a Z4, and I prefer the coupe - no roof to go wrong, slightly more rare and I absolutely love the way they look. I suspect they are a future classic.
Only concerns are some concerns about the hydraulic lifters, but it seems it doesn't really harm the engine, and it may be fixed by a previous owner. Some of them are starship mileages too (WELL north of 100K), are these motors good for it?
There are some alternatives from the BMW stable, such as the 130i, totally different type of car though, and I'm guessing not as special? Doesn't really need to be practical but if it was as good from a drivers point of view then I'd certainly consider it, a few cosmetic mods can have them looking nice.
Finally, I could go for the budget option, a 325ti. I've been told that the E46 325ti is the best E46 drivers car aside from the M3, even eclipsing the 330Ci. Lighter, smaller, and seemingly set up for fun, it even has the induction noise piped to the cabin like the Z4!
I do have a slight worry that the Z4 would feel somewhat like a 3-series to drive, which isn't an insult to the 3-series, but it wouldn't really cut the mustard for a sports car, but that being said, I can't see that being the case? Especially the coupe looks very special to me.
As for the car, I'd want something that wasn't going to cause me many expensive issues, and lifters issue aside, it seems that the n52s are good engines.
I almost feel as though the Z4C is the closest thing to a TVR (though obviously a lot more civilised and reliable) from the Germans and that would appeal to me greatly. Any thoughts?
Z4C is lovely looking car with a great engine, I had a couple of lengthy test drives as I wanted one, but could not get on with the lack of steering feel or tramlining, a real shame. Steering won't be much different to the FN2 which isn't great either, but it's not as good as a 350z in that respect.
I've never driven any Type R, but from what I have read you do need to rev them to get them to go quickly.
However the N52 3 litre in the Z4C has plenty of pull low down (and my previous car was a 123d so I was used to torque!) but when you get a chance to chase the red line it really comes alive! BTW the 130i has the same engine but is going to be a different experience, and I hope you are right about Z4C being a future classic! They are certainly fairly rare - whereas to most people a 130i is just another 1 Series (albeit not to those of us on here)!
I just loved the look of the Z4C the first time I saw one, and as soon as I drove one last year I knew I had to have one. I can see the TVR-likeness, but to me it's the E-Type Coupe I lusted after since childhood will never be able to afford!
Anyway, gratuitous photo now needed:-
However I sometimes need to drive my elderly mother about, so I bought a daily as well:-
It's a good car, but not in the same league as the Z4C in any way, even the sound! IIRC the Z4C has a sound generator, the 325ti is just the only E46 that doesn't have a baffle in the exhaust (so doesn't need the golf tee mod).
Only downside to the Z4C seems to centre around the steering feel - they are prone to tramlining and do feel a bit "twitchy". Mine is much better since I had the track control arm bushes replaced but many say ditching the runflats improves things no end. Might consider that when my tyres need replacing.
You need to test drive one, but be careful as you may want to buy it!
FWIW I wouldn't bother with an SE model as the standard seats aren't fit to be in a Z4! If you see the Sport ones you'll know what I mean!
And if such things matter to you, the base spec is indeed basic - no parking sensors, cruise, multi-function steering wheel, or cupholders! But it is meant for driving! Mine has the optional Xenons and they are fantastic, so I would definitely want them.
If you start looking seriously there is a dedicated forum for Z4s and there is loads of information and tips on there, plus classifieds!
Good luck anyway, and let us know if you get one!
However the N52 3 litre in the Z4C has plenty of pull low down (and my previous car was a 123d so I was used to torque!) but when you get a chance to chase the red line it really comes alive! BTW the 130i has the same engine but is going to be a different experience, and I hope you are right about Z4C being a future classic! They are certainly fairly rare - whereas to most people a 130i is just another 1 Series (albeit not to those of us on here)!
I just loved the look of the Z4C the first time I saw one, and as soon as I drove one last year I knew I had to have one. I can see the TVR-likeness, but to me it's the E-Type Coupe I lusted after since childhood will never be able to afford!
Anyway, gratuitous photo now needed:-
However I sometimes need to drive my elderly mother about, so I bought a daily as well:-
It's a good car, but not in the same league as the Z4C in any way, even the sound! IIRC the Z4C has a sound generator, the 325ti is just the only E46 that doesn't have a baffle in the exhaust (so doesn't need the golf tee mod).
Only downside to the Z4C seems to centre around the steering feel - they are prone to tramlining and do feel a bit "twitchy". Mine is much better since I had the track control arm bushes replaced but many say ditching the runflats improves things no end. Might consider that when my tyres need replacing.
You need to test drive one, but be careful as you may want to buy it!
FWIW I wouldn't bother with an SE model as the standard seats aren't fit to be in a Z4! If you see the Sport ones you'll know what I mean!
And if such things matter to you, the base spec is indeed basic - no parking sensors, cruise, multi-function steering wheel, or cupholders! But it is meant for driving! Mine has the optional Xenons and they are fantastic, so I would definitely want them.
If you start looking seriously there is a dedicated forum for Z4s and there is loads of information and tips on there, plus classifieds!
Good luck anyway, and let us know if you get one!
TameRacingDriver said:
There are some alternatives from the BMW stable, such as the 130i, totally different type of car though, and I'm guessing not as special? Doesn't really need to be practical but if it was as good from a drivers point of view then I'd certainly consider it, a few cosmetic mods can have them looking nice.
Finally, I could go for the budget option, a 325ti. I've been told that the E46 325ti is the best E46 drivers car aside from the M3, even eclipsing the 330Ci. Lighter, smaller, and seemingly set up for fun, it even has the induction noise piped to the cabin like the Z4!
I've owned a 325ti and am now on my second 130i (pre-facelift non-runflat model now, facelift runflat version before). The biggest difference comes in the form of runflats. Ditch the runflats and both handle beautifully and though the 325ti produces a nicer snarl, the 130i sounds meaner and pulls a lot harder with tonnes more torque (you're talking 1,385kg, 261bhp and 232lb ft for the 130i vs 1,405kg, 189bhp and 181lb ft for the 325ti so quite a difference. Finally, I could go for the budget option, a 325ti. I've been told that the E46 325ti is the best E46 drivers car aside from the M3, even eclipsing the 330Ci. Lighter, smaller, and seemingly set up for fun, it even has the induction noise piped to the cabin like the Z4!
In terms of hydraulic vs electric steering, I actually preferred the electric steering in the facelift 130i - slightly meatier and more precise, though there's not much in it. I've driven some pretty rapid machines over the last few years, but still love the sound, power and feel of the 130i - it still feels special to me, so I wouldn't write it off compared to a Z4 Coupe for that reason. Though the 325ti sounds gorgeous I did sometimes yearn for a little more power.
£3k seems to be enough to bag a pretty tidy 325ti, though you'll need around twice that for a 130i. If value's more important to you than power I'd go for the 325ti, but if you're happy to spend more, you get more car with the 130i - especially as most I've seen seem to come with more options than the 325tis...just make sure to ditch the runflats!
Vroomer said:
I think there were only around 250 Z4C manuals sold in the UK. My low mileage, top spec example has definitely not fallen in value for a couple of years and may indeed be going up.
Sadly the database I got on the Z4Forum suggests BMW made 297 SEs and 1906 Sport model in UK spec, and while I don't have a breakdown of manual v auto I would imagine most were manual. (There is a breakdown of colours so if you have a Phoenix Yellow Metallic SE you have the only one)! But just 2,203 Coupes altogether still makes them pretty rare!FWIW while I am sure a 130i is a fantastic car I can't see it feeling as special as a Z4C - maybe I need to try one. Or maybe not, I'd probably just end up wanting one to replace my 325ti...........!
Thanks for all of the replies. I seem to be wanting to go for the Z4C in my heart compared with the cheaper and more practical BMW alternatives. I really like the idea. I do wonder if I'd be missing something by not going for the roadster though, as I've had a few and its nice to have the roof down, but despite that, I've not missed not having a removable roof as much as I thought, and the Coupe model looks the nuts and I'm fairly sure will be a future classic? I wont rule out the 130i or 325ti, but looking at the weight / bhp figures quoted above, I'm thinking I'll be happier with the extra grunt of either of the newer cars.
Definitely leaning towards Z4C at the moment. I'm gonna keep hold of the CTR over the winter, can't see the point in changing now and it means I'll have a bit more money to put towards it. Get one in time for the spring coming; my birthday is in April so might seem a good time to treat myself to a present
(assuming I can wait that long!). I'll definitely resurrect the thread when/if I buy one; I say if, because a few months is a lot of time to change your mind, but at the moment, having thought about it for months already, it seems very likely I'll go for the BMW option.
Definitely leaning towards Z4C at the moment. I'm gonna keep hold of the CTR over the winter, can't see the point in changing now and it means I'll have a bit more money to put towards it. Get one in time for the spring coming; my birthday is in April so might seem a good time to treat myself to a present
(assuming I can wait that long!). I'll definitely resurrect the thread when/if I buy one; I say if, because a few months is a lot of time to change your mind, but at the moment, having thought about it for months already, it seems very likely I'll go for the BMW option.Mr Tidy said:
Vroomer said:
I think there were only around 250 Z4C manuals sold in the UK. My low mileage, top spec example has definitely not fallen in value for a couple of years and may indeed be going up.
Sadly the database I got on the Z4Forum suggests BMW made 297 SEs and 1906 Sport model in UK spec, and while I don't have a breakdown of manual v auto I would imagine most were manual. (There is a breakdown of colours so if you have a Phoenix Yellow Metallic SE you have the only one)! But just 2,203 Coupes altogether still makes them pretty rare!FWIW while I am sure a 130i is a fantastic car I can't see it feeling as special as a Z4C - maybe I need to try one. Or maybe not, I'd probably just end up wanting one to replace my 325ti...........!
How Many Left (https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=✓&q=bmw+z4+coupe) says there are 263 Si manuals and 124 Si autos...
I'd think I'd want the manual really, I always have this fear that any kind of dual clutch or similar box is gonna be trouble down the line...
Incidentally, one of my mates seems to think by the time I buy it's actually going to have risen in value, any truth in this? If that was the case, I see little point in hanging about really, even if I wont be able to enjoy it to its full in the winter...
Incidentally, one of my mates seems to think by the time I buy it's actually going to have risen in value, any truth in this? If that was the case, I see little point in hanging about really, even if I wont be able to enjoy it to its full in the winter...
You should definitely go for a Z4C over some of the lesser model BMW's. Not only are they amazing, but the long bonnet makes working on them a piece of piss. No need to remove any filters or crap to access plugs, water pump can be changed without removing any suspension parts. Parts (excluding water pump) are cheap and readily available.
Do it!
Do it!
dmitsi said:
You should definitely go for a Z4C over some of the lesser model BMW's. Not only are they amazing, but the long bonnet makes working on them a piece of piss. No need to remove any filters or crap to access plugs, water pump can be changed without removing any suspension parts. Parts (excluding water pump) are cheap and readily available.
Do it!
That's a definite plus point! Do it!
I think I have already made my mind up, the Z4 it will be, and I definitely think I want the coupe model over the convertible, as much as I like convertibles, they definitely come with their own drawbacks for me (expense of replacing the roof if it goes wrong, leaking, steaming up, lesser rigidity, higher weight etc).
I think I've pretty much dismissed the lower models on the basis that I want a feel good car and I suspect the Z4 will definitely do this so much better than a 130 or 325ti.
The Boxster would have been a strong contender if it wasn't for the potential bork factor (especially when considering age:budget). The steering thing is unlikely to be a massive issue for me in all honesty, it's a nice thing to have great steering, but most of the cars in my past haven't exactly been known for their steering.
I've had some pretty ropey cars handling cars in my past, but the Z4 steering was one of the worst, undoubtedly made worse by the almost new set of runflats fitted by the previous owner. It really made driving on narrow country lanes a chore at anything approaching the legal limit.
It seemed OK during the test drive on wide, relatively smooth, roads.
It reminded me a bit of my first car - a Reliant Robin with a knackered kingpin.
The potential for a major engine problem is why older Boxsters are so (relatively) cheap.
It seemed OK during the test drive on wide, relatively smooth, roads.
It reminded me a bit of my first car - a Reliant Robin with a knackered kingpin.
The potential for a major engine problem is why older Boxsters are so (relatively) cheap.
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