Proof of age of kitcar

[ColinM50]

My Sabre was "bult" in 2009 from an 87 Sierra and was correctly SVA'd and registered as an 87 car and issued an F plate. Subsequently I bought another plate, an "E" reg and did everything right to change the reg no. All fine and dandy so far.

I've had an offer to buy my car from a chap in Italy but he needs something from DVLA proving the car's an 87. All the V5 says is rebuilt -assembled from parts some of which were not new. SVA/IVA cert issued 26 06 2009.

Apparently he needs this proof due to the amount of tax they have to pay on imported used cars. If it's over 20 years old the tax drops and drops even further after 30 years so if I could prove it was 87, he'd get a nice tax drop in '17.

If I contact the DVLA do you reckon they could provide proof it's an 87 car? I didn't keep any of the info I sent them when I first registered it.

[AdiT]

Whats the date of first registration on the v5. It should say 2009, when the kit was registered by rights but local DVLA offices have been known to get it wrong (surprise) and put the original donors date.

End of the day, it's not an '87 car; It's a 2009 car, built using parts from an '87 car.

[Clivew]

If it is on an age related plate, there should be two dates on the V5C. Date Of First Registration is the date of the donor vehicle and should be the date used for the age related plate. Date Of First Registration In UK is the date it was registered as a kit car after the SVA/IVA.

[ColinM50]

It is on an age related plate and as I said in the first post, all the V5 says is quote "Rebuilt -assembled from parts some of which were not new. SVA/IVA cert issued 26 06 2009."

DVLA would have had all the info proving the original Sierra components when it passed SVA in 2009 and from that issued the F registration. But nowhere on the V5 does it actually say 1987 and Italian chappie needs proof that it is 87.

Any ideas please?

[Rich G]

You cannot prove that it is a 1987 car because it is not a 1987 car; it is a 2009 car as its current identity has only existed since 2009.

Its existence as a Sierra counts for nothing as it is no longer a Sierra.

It only has the age related plate because it used some parts of a 1987 car.

Hope this makes things clear.

[GoneAnon]

I built my car using a new shell and a donor and also have the "Built from parts, some or all of which may not be new" on the V5.

The annoying thing for me is having a V5 that says date of 1st registration 2009 but they wouldn't let me put a 2007 plate on the car because the donor was a 1991.

Seems they CAN have it both ways!

[Russ Bost]

Post above is entirely correct, with regard to a replacement reg. it is based on the age of the donor parts however with regard to the age of the actual vehicle, it is regarded as the year it was registered. The car is a 2009 vehicle with regard to it being registered in any other country.

[ColinM50]

On the basis, "don't guess how many teeth in a horses mouth, open it and count 'em" I called the DVLA.

After being shunted from pillar to post I eventually spoke with a very nice welsh lass who was incredibly helpful though didn't really know the answer.

She said my best course of action was to download a V888 form, fill it in explaining in detail what I wanted and why and send it off to Swansea along with a £5 cheque.

So it seems like there might be a way forward. Will let you know the outcome.

[Steve_D]

ColinM50 said:

.....She said my best course of action was to download a V888 form, fill it in explaining in detail what I wanted and why and send it off to Swansea along with a £5 cheque.

So it seems like there might be a way forward. Will let you know the outcome.

May actually be worth telling them what you want it to say. That way if they are undecided they may just take the easy way out and give you the answer you want.

Steve

[Rich G]

Steve_D said:

ColinM50 said:

.....She said my best course of action was to download a V888 form, fill it in explaining in detail what I wanted and why and send it off to Swansea along with a £5 cheque.

So it seems like there might be a way forward. Will let you know the outcome.

May actually be worth telling them what you want it to say. That way if they are undecided they may just take the easy way out and give you the answer you want.

Steve

What he wants is for DVLA to write back to him and say that it’s a 1987 car – only they can’t do that bacause as far as the DVLA are concerned, the Sabre has only existed since 2009. It may have bits from a 1987 Sierra in it but that Sierra ceased to exist in 2009.

Colin – if you’ve sent off a V888 for the registration number on your Sabre (and here I’m pretty darn sure that the F-plate you have on the Sabre is not the same collection of letters and numbers that the F-plate Sierra had) you will get the history of you Sabre which was “born” in 2009 and so it will contain no history prior to 2009 because your Sabre simply did not exist before 2009!

“After being shunted from pillar to post I eventually spoke with a very nice welsh lass who was incredibly helpful though didn't really know the answer.”

Hardly surprising really - DVLA customer facing staff are only trained to a level that they need to be to do their particular job. For answers to complex questions you need to get to speak to people further up the food chain.

[RochdaleGT]

as the car has a reg-date of 2009 it wont be possible to re-register it in italy.

fact is..its a 2009 car.

the technical parts (donor parts) are from 1987...but the car still remains a 2009 car.

the car would nedd a 1987 reg-date, than everyting would be fine.

as all newer kitcars, even the ones with age related plates, show a newish reg-date in the documents, they arent liable for export anymore.

Edited by RochdaleGT on Tuesday 13th October 20:00

[Steve_D]

RochdaleGT said:

as the car has a reg-date of 2009 it wont be possible to re-register it in italy.

fact is..its a 2009 car.

the technical parts (donor parts) are from 1987...but the car still remains a 2009 car.

the car would nedd a 1987 reg-date, than everyting would be fine.

as all newer kitcars, even the ones with age related plates, show a newish reg-date in the documents, they arent liable for export anymore.

Edited by RochdaleGT on Tuesday 13th October 20:00

You say it has a registration date of 2009 but that is not the way the OP is describing it. His V5c souds to be the same as mine.

I built my Dakar kit in 2008 but that date only appears in the Special notes section 3 and then it only refers to 2008 as the SVA date.
In Section 4 Vehicle details it says Date of first registration 09 01 1987 and the same as Date of first registration in the UK.

I say again 2008 does not appear anywhere else in the V5c.

Steve

[Rich G]

Steve_D said:

You say it has a registration date of 2009 but that is not the way the OP is describing it. His V5c souds to be the same as mine.

I built my Dakar kit in 2008 but that date only appears in the Special notes section 3 and then it only refers to 2008 as the SVA date.
In Section 4 Vehicle details it says Date of first registration 09 01 1987 and the same as Date of first registration in the UK.

I say again 2008 does not appear anywhere else in the V5c.

Steve

Steve - do all of the mechanical parts for your Dakar come from one single vehicle? That may make a difference to the way it's registered. If it is a single vehicle donor, does your Dakar carry an age related plate or the same plate that the donor vehicle carried?

[Steve_D]

Rich G said:

Steve_D said:

You say it has a registration date of 2009 but that is not the way the OP is describing it. His V5c souds to be the same as mine.

I built my Dakar kit in 2008 but that date only appears in the Special notes section 3 and then it only refers to 2008 as the SVA date.
In Section 4 Vehicle details it says Date of first registration 09 01 1987 and the same as Date of first registration in the UK.

I say again 2008 does not appear anywhere else in the V5c.

Steve

Steve - do all of the mechanical parts for your Dakar come from one single vehicle? That may make a difference to the way it's registered. If it is a single vehicle donor, does your Dakar carry an age related plate or the same plate that the donor vehicle carried?

The Dakar is a kit built from a single donor.
Yes it is an age related reg. but not the original from the donor.

Steve

[Clivew]

ColinM50 said:

It is on an age related plate and as I said in the first post, all the V5 says is quote "Rebuilt -assembled from parts some of which were not new. SVA/IVA cert issued 26 06 2009."

DVLA would have had all the info proving the original Sierra components when it passed SVA in 2009 and from that issued the F registration. But nowhere on the V5 does it actually say 1987 and Italian chappie needs proof that it is 87.

Any ideas please?

The section you quote should be in Section 3 of the V5C.

In section 4B of the V5C, the "Date of First Registration" should be the date of the donor vehicle and therefore the date of the Age Related registration. Section (4B.1) is "The Date of First Registration in The UK" should show the date when the car was registered as a kit car with DVLA after the SVA/IVA

At least that is how it is shown on mine.

[ColinM50]

OK, to try to remove any confusion, here's the relevant parts of my V5. I've cropped it to leave out my address and the current reg no, don't want any light fingered chaps paying me a visit in the dead of night.





There's nothing anywhere on the V5 that says it was based on an 87 Sierra but it must have been or DVLA wouldn't have issued an F Reg in the first place would they? So my guess is they know it's an 87, it's just getting them to say so.

Still waiting to hear from them re the V888. I'll let you know what happens.

[Steve_D]

Your second pic is not clear so we cannot see what dates it has in Date of reg section 4.
Section 3 is what I have in my Dakar V5c.

Steve

[Rich G]

Colin's V5C says...

Date of registration: 06/07/2009
Date of first registration in UK: 06/07/2009

... it is therefore a 2009 car.

[AdiT]

It's not "based on an '87 Sierra"; It's built and registered in 2009 and used enough parts from an '87 reg to recieve an age related reg. It's still a 2009 car. The v5 clearly states that. Good luck trying to get DVLA to write you a letter that says differently, so that your buyer can mislead the Italian version on DVLA into thinking it's an '87 car.

[RochdaleGT]

Rich G said:

Steve - do all of the mechanical parts for your Dakar come from one single vehicle? That may make a difference to the way it's registered. If it is a single vehicle donor, does your Dakar carry an age related plate or the same plate that the donor vehicle carried?

as i said...its a 2009 car with a reg-date of 2009..so no chance for export!!!