Bought an unroadworthy car - advise please

Bought an unroadworthy car - advise please

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tomglibbery

Original Poster:

134 posts

132 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
I recently (26th September) bought myself a Enos Roadster from an eBay classified advert. I'd been looking for a while and this was the first I had seen that seemed to be what I was after. Cosmetically it wasn't pretty, but drove well and handled as a Eunos should. Crucially the sills and arches were sound and the MOT certificate showed a pass with no advisories. Based on that I agreed to pay £700 for the car and paid the seller via bank transfer.

I had a very enjoyable few days with it until the next Thursday (1st October) when the water pump went. It's a 22 year old car so is not a major surprise and could have happened at any time. My issue with the car is not that the water pump failed.

As a result of the water pump failing I took the car to a local specialist recommended by a friend who also has a Eunos. I drove the car there on Friday (2nd October) and it continued to drive perfectly well. I left the car with them and asked them to do a full check of the car so that we can identify what work needed to be done and get a plan in place as to when it could be done - the car has been bought as a project for track use and summer commutes (or when I'm sick of the pathetic fuel consumption from my daily AMG and fancy a cheap drive somewhere!). I left the car with them and they agreed to call in a few days.

When I heard from them the news was not good. It appears as though the car has had a significant front end collision which arguably should have written the car off. There is also major corrosion to the sills that was disguised in such a way that a roadside check would not identify it. There are other areas of corrosion and wear that should have at the very least been an advisory on the mot, if not a fail. The garages advise is that the car is not safe to drive on the road.

The MOT was issued 11/02/2015. I completely understand that the front end crash damage could have occurred following the issue of the MOT, however such significant corrosion clearly won't have sprung up so quickly. As I type I also realise there is no rear fog light fitted to the car which, iirc is another legal requirement for imported vehicles.

So simply put, the car is not fit for purpose as sold. I have reported the seller to eBay. He will shortly have his account blocked. Unfortunately as it was a classified advert it is not covered by their money back guarantee. The seller himself was immediately abusive when I raised the issue with him and clearly is not going to refund me my money. That's fine, his choice!

My objective now is to make things as difficult as possible for him! As mentioned he will shortly lose eBay privileges, I've raised the issue with trading standards who appear to be very interested and I'm on hold to VOSA at the moment to report him and the garage who issued the MOT. I'm also going to get in contact with HMRC just to make sure he declares his income from selling cars.

Any other ideas at all? Just so you are aware, his username is LEXUSCHAP and he is to be avoided at all costs. He operates from Dudley. I googled him after the sale (hindsight is 20/20!) and it appears I am by no means the first person who he's sold a car to with a dodgy MOT. It does appear however that I am the first person who he has done this to where he has actually completed the transaction from his home address which gives me an advantage when it comes to vindictive revenge!

As a side note, if anyone has a nice Eunos for sale please let me know...

mcflurry

9,079 posts

252 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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On a 22 year old £700 car, i'd say the odds on any comeback were minimal.

Whilst there are consumer protection laws, an ebay sale = Caveat emptor and all that jazz.

Ste1987

1,798 posts

105 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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Laws have recently changed giving buyers more protection, you should be okay if you've got trading standards involved

LukeSi

5,753 posts

160 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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I've got a light weight racing MR2 you can buy if you want wink

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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Business or private seller?

Black_mamba

313 posts

208 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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A £700 22 year old car, what did you expect? Cars crash, cars rust, they all have an end of life, it sounds like yours (it is yours) is at that stage Were you hoping to come on here and regail us with stories of what a steal it was. Patch it up, punt it out or give a scrappy a call.

ETA what sort of 'vindictive' actions are you suggesting, smashing his house, putting poo through his letterbox? You sound like a bit of a nutter that needs to save his money for a better car, or at least find a mechanic friend to take to your next purchase

Edited by Black_mamba on Thursday 8th October 17:16

tomglibbery

Original Poster:

134 posts

132 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
mcflurry said:
On a 22 year old £700 car, i'd say the odds on any comeback were minimal.

Whilst there are consumer protection laws, an ebay sale = Caveat emptor and all that jazz.
I would agree caveat emptor if the car was simply a lemon, but I believe the fraudulent MOT takes it out of that arena.


Trading Standards took the matter very seriously. The laws have changed meaning that part time driveway traders are actually far more accountable for their actions than they used to be. They agree that the car falls comfortably within the Sale of Goods act as unsuitable for purpose.

SistersofPercy

3,334 posts

165 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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tomglibbery said:
I have reported the seller to eBay. He will shortly have his account blocked.
I'd be nothing short of amazed if that happens. eBay are paying you lip service there if that is what they have told you.

Gallen

2,162 posts

254 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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You really won't like my reply I'm afraid.

tomglibbery said:
Cosmetically it wasn't pretty, but drove well and handled as a Eunos should. Crucially the sills and arches were sound and the MOT certificate showed a pass with no advisories. Based on that I agreed to pay £700 for the car and paid the seller via bank transfer
Didn't base the purchase decision on much really - especially since the MOT was 8 months ago.


tomglibbery said:
As a result of the water pump failing I took the car to a local specialist recommended by a friend who also has a Eunos. I drove the car there on Friday (2nd October) and it continued to drive perfectly well. I left the car with them and asked them to do a full check of the car so that we can identify what work needed to be done and get a plan in place as to when it could be done
That's the second mistake!


tomglibbery said:
When I heard from them the news was not good.
No suprise!



tomglibbery said:
It appears as though the car has had a significant front end collision which arguably should have written the car off. There is also major corrosion to the sills that was disguised in such a way that a roadside check would not identify it. There are other areas of corrosion and wear that should have at the very least been an advisory on the mot, if not a fail. The garages advise is that the car is not safe to drive on the road.
You are supposed to check the car, then buy it. Not the other way around.




tomglibbery said:
The MOT was issued 11/02/2015. I completely understand that the front end crash damage could have occurred following the issue of the MOT, however such significant corrosion clearly won't have sprung up so quickly. As I type I also realise there is no rear fog light fitted to the car which, iirc is another legal requirement for imported vehicles.

So simply put, the car is not fit for purpose as sold.

I have reported the seller to eBay.
It's a real shame that sellers can't report buyers.



tomglibbery said:
My objective now is to make things as difficult as possible for him! As mentioned he will shortly lose eBay privileges, I've raised the issue with trading standards who appear to be very interested and I'm on hold to VOSA at the moment to report him and the garage who issued the MOT. I'm also going to get in contact with HMRC just to make sure he declares his income from selling cars.

Any other ideas at all? Just so you are aware, his username is LEXUSCHAP and he is to be avoided at all costs. He operates from Dudley
Really? He didn't make you buy the car.

You viewed it and were happy [so it seems] until the water pump went.

It's then no surprise that after presenting a £700 "not pretty" Eunos to the local specialist who then proceeds to poke over with a fine tooth comb and conjure up a list to make it "right", that the news isn't great.

Serious case of sour grapes here. My advice is learn from it and move on.

G.


Edited by Gallen on Thursday 8th October 17:35

andyalan10

402 posts

136 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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If the dodgy MoT was issued 7 months before you bought the car, what makes you think the seller had anything to do with it?

You also seem to be positioning yourself as a Eunos expert who checked sills and arches carefully, and yet didn't notice anything amiss.

As you ask for advice I'd say "Don't only spend £700 on a car of a model know for rust problems and expect there to be no rust".

HTH

Andy

SonicShadow

2,452 posts

153 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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This just in: £700 MX5 has mechanical problems and rust problems. In other news, the sky has been confirmed to be blue, and it turns out that fire is indeed hot. More at 11.

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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You'd need to have VOSA inspect the car within 28 days for regular defects and within 3 months for corrosion issues since the MOT was issued to have any come back in that sense.

I suspect the seller will set up a new ebay account as well.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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tomglibbery said:
...but I believe the fraudulent MOT takes it out of that arena.
So complain to DVSA. Oh, wait. You can't. The MOT's too old - an appeal has to be done within 28 days, or three months for rot.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
tomglibbery said:
mcflurry said:
On a 22 year old £700 car, i'd say the odds on any comeback were minimal.

Whilst there are consumer protection laws, an ebay sale = Caveat emptor and all that jazz.
I would agree caveat emptor if the car was simply a lemon, but I believe the fraudulent MOT takes it out of that arena.


Trading Standards took the matter very seriously. The laws have changed meaning that part time driveway traders are actually far more accountable for their actions than they used to be. They agree that the car falls comfortably within the Sale of Goods act as unsuitable for purpose.
Is the guy you bought it from an MOT tester? If not then I can't see how the 'fraudulent MOT' is his problem. All he has to say that he had it MOT tested in February. (or maybe he bought it, tested, since then?)

He can say he had no idea that it was unroadworthy and he sold it in good faith, privately, and you are therefore subject to the principle of caveat emptor.

TS may be making encouraging noises but, from what I've heard, that's far away from them actually taking action and I'm not sure that would directly help you in any case.

Good luck anyway, let us know how you get on.


OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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If you are so fussy but mechanically lacking why are you buying £700 cars? £700 cars are £700 for a reason.
You sound like the guy who was complaining that the taxed, tested and overall pretty sweet for its age £800 a4 tqs i was selling had 3 different types of non budget tyres on it and the last 2 services werent dealer stamps just receipts for the parts and the backbox had been welded instead of replaced.
do you give perfectly good cars away for scrap money yourself?
You could get a very nice clean tidy undamaged eunos for £2k or so.

Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Thursday 8th October 17:55

tomglibbery

Original Poster:

134 posts

132 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
I'm really surprised by all the responses. It's one thing to tell me I'm unlikely to get my money back, I knew that already, but it's quite another to be launching attacks at me.

I've guess it's my own stupid fault for expecting an Internet forum to provide anything other than sarcasm.

Black_mamba

313 posts

208 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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...I also see from your profile you list your occupation as a used car salesman...laugh I think you might need to rethink your profession if you can't buy them, you'll never be able to sell them!

lbc

3,212 posts

216 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
The OP's profile states he is a used car dealer/salesman.

You would expect a used car dealer to know what he is buying and the risks involved.

For £700 we get the impression he expected it to be like a new car and flip it for a quick profit,
but is now crying like a baby because he bought a lemon and can't make any money on the deal.


Edited by lbc on Thursday 8th October 18:02

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Your attitude invited the response you are getting.
Its a £700 sports car. Stick a pattern waterpump on it, drive it on sunny days and scrap it or gumtree it when its done.
Who in their right mind takes a £700 car to a specialist?
it might even pass a straight mot. I've been surprised at a few legit passes i have had.

Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Thursday 8th October 18:03

Black_mamba

313 posts

208 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
tomglibbery said:
I'm really surprised by all the responses. It's one thing to tell me I'm unlikely to get my money back, I knew that already, but it's quite another to be launching attacks at me.

I've guess it's my own stupid fault for expecting an Internet forum to provide anything other than sarcasm.
you're the one planning 'vindictive revenge' on the seller, we're just having some bannnttterrrr with you!