Sale Debate:will water-cooled N/A 911 Carreras Appreciate?
Discussion
With the next generation of 911 switching to the use of turbochargers to boost power and reduce emissions, a new dawn has been bestowed upon the fabled Carrera. But what effect will Zuffenhausen’s new approach to its engines have on previous mass-produced Carreras in the 911’s water-cooled generation?
We’ve already witnessed a moderate increase in value of the 996-generation Carrera in 2015, while values of M97- engined 997 Carreras have also held firm. However, as the new era of 911 begins to populate OPC showrooms, there are calculated assertions from some circles that all naturally aspirated water-cooled Carreras may see an increase in their market pedigree.
Jamie Tyler of respected UK Porsche specialists, Paragon, believes this induction change will indeed have a positive influence on 996, 997 and 991-era 911s, telling us: “I think that the naturally aspirated cars will continue to hold their values or even slightly increase.
Porsche 997 Carrera engines
Good examples of 996’s have already started to go up in value, and they still represent superb value for money. Even 997.2’s (which were the first generation to switch to direct fuel injection) have held their values incredibly well – I view them to be the last of the classic looking shape of 911, which could bode well for the model in future.”
Paragon have sold a great number of quality 996, 997 and even 991 Carreras in recent years, and Jamie believes it will be interesting to see what the purist’s view of this new car will be once launched:
“I am sure it will be a superb car, but it’s a shame the naturally aspirated engine has had its day. It makes you wonder how much longer it’s going to be before hybrid technology is introduced into the 911 road car,” he says.
Porsche 996 Carreras
Meanwhile, Paul Stephens, proprietor of the eponymously named independent specialists, believes the turbocharged 911 Carrera will do little to help previous generations of the model. He tells us:
“The 996 and 997 Carreras were mass produced to such a huge scale that they’re just not rare enough for me. Just because those cars are naturally aspirated doesn’t necessarily mean people will start paying big money for them again, so the bona fide Turbo and GT3/RS are still the most sought after used models in my opinion.”
The differing views at Paragon and Paul Stephens are reminiscent of the entire industry. Only time will tell as to what effect the new car will have on previous generations but the 996 era has already gone up in value and early 997 owners will be hopeful of a similar fate…
We’ve already witnessed a moderate increase in value of the 996-generation Carrera in 2015, while values of M97- engined 997 Carreras have also held firm. However, as the new era of 911 begins to populate OPC showrooms, there are calculated assertions from some circles that all naturally aspirated water-cooled Carreras may see an increase in their market pedigree.
Jamie Tyler of respected UK Porsche specialists, Paragon, believes this induction change will indeed have a positive influence on 996, 997 and 991-era 911s, telling us: “I think that the naturally aspirated cars will continue to hold their values or even slightly increase.
Porsche 997 Carrera engines
Good examples of 996’s have already started to go up in value, and they still represent superb value for money. Even 997.2’s (which were the first generation to switch to direct fuel injection) have held their values incredibly well – I view them to be the last of the classic looking shape of 911, which could bode well for the model in future.”
Paragon have sold a great number of quality 996, 997 and even 991 Carreras in recent years, and Jamie believes it will be interesting to see what the purist’s view of this new car will be once launched:
“I am sure it will be a superb car, but it’s a shame the naturally aspirated engine has had its day. It makes you wonder how much longer it’s going to be before hybrid technology is introduced into the 911 road car,” he says.
Porsche 996 Carreras
Meanwhile, Paul Stephens, proprietor of the eponymously named independent specialists, believes the turbocharged 911 Carrera will do little to help previous generations of the model. He tells us:
“The 996 and 997 Carreras were mass produced to such a huge scale that they’re just not rare enough for me. Just because those cars are naturally aspirated doesn’t necessarily mean people will start paying big money for them again, so the bona fide Turbo and GT3/RS are still the most sought after used models in my opinion.”
The differing views at Paragon and Paul Stephens are reminiscent of the entire industry. Only time will tell as to what effect the new car will have on previous generations but the 996 era has already gone up in value and early 997 owners will be hopeful of a similar fate…
Porsche 911 997 Carrera 2 Sold MORE REQUIRED (2006)POA
12
0 miles Petrol 355 bhp Manual
Paul Stephens are actively looking for low mileage 997 for cash or consignment. Please call us today if you have a low mileage 997 for sale. We h...
Essex
And of coarse Mr Poa doesn't really like bog standard 997's!!!
12
0 miles Petrol 355 bhp Manual
Paul Stephens are actively looking for low mileage 997 for cash or consignment. Please call us today if you have a low mileage 997 for sale. We h...
Essex
And of coarse Mr Poa doesn't really like bog standard 997's!!!
Edited by harleywilma on Thursday 8th October 21:19
But that will probably all change when my ims eats itself or I lose the scores on my bore wars..
To answer the question: Maybe.
Porsche seems to have two distinct groups of buyers - genuine enthusiasts who want a high revving, great sounding flat six that's great to drive being the first group, and the posing 'Look at ME' crowd who seem to form the vast majority lately.
Amongst the enthusiasts, the flat six NA cars are going to be more popular. When we talk about who buys used pork, there's a fair percentage of enthusiasts who will help to keep prices up. However, the 'Look at ME' crowd won't care - they just want the newest car they can afford, and that's what they'll buy.
I actually think the largest impact on values is going to be in the Boxster / Cayman cars, where the switch to turbo 4 cylinder motors will alter the sound of the car. Enthusiasts who buy in this sector will almost certainly pay a premium for a 6 cylinder motor and might just hold the values of these cars up in comparison to the 4 cylinder cars.
For reference, I'd never buy a Boxster or Cayman with a 4 cylinder motor when there's a 6 cylinder alternative.
Porsche seems to have two distinct groups of buyers - genuine enthusiasts who want a high revving, great sounding flat six that's great to drive being the first group, and the posing 'Look at ME' crowd who seem to form the vast majority lately.
Amongst the enthusiasts, the flat six NA cars are going to be more popular. When we talk about who buys used pork, there's a fair percentage of enthusiasts who will help to keep prices up. However, the 'Look at ME' crowd won't care - they just want the newest car they can afford, and that's what they'll buy.
I actually think the largest impact on values is going to be in the Boxster / Cayman cars, where the switch to turbo 4 cylinder motors will alter the sound of the car. Enthusiasts who buy in this sector will almost certainly pay a premium for a 6 cylinder motor and might just hold the values of these cars up in comparison to the 4 cylinder cars.
For reference, I'd never buy a Boxster or Cayman with a 4 cylinder motor when there's a 6 cylinder alternative.
I was in the market for a simple used 997 Carrera 2S manual but - to my dismay - there weren't any, so either the purists aren't selling, or they didn't buy them in the first place.
I 'ended up' in a 4S with PDK since it was literally the best available 997.2 around (and I really like the wide body/red strip) but the real clinchers were the engine, especially with the PSE button pressed and the flaps open, and the throttle response. Just such a joy!
In the end, I took this as an opportunity to grab one of the last great NA engines, as our last several road cars and daily drivers have been already been turbo- or supercharged for some years already, and while there are some dull turbos out there (all with a lump of torque and no top end), with the right attitude, the hardware, and a clever and properly custom remap, you can get good response, a very linear power delivery and a great top end (provided the turbo is up to it). So, no, I don't think the NAs will appreciate, but they may just depreciate slightly less than before. And I don't think all hope is lost for the future.
I 'ended up' in a 4S with PDK since it was literally the best available 997.2 around (and I really like the wide body/red strip) but the real clinchers were the engine, especially with the PSE button pressed and the flaps open, and the throttle response. Just such a joy!
In the end, I took this as an opportunity to grab one of the last great NA engines, as our last several road cars and daily drivers have been already been turbo- or supercharged for some years already, and while there are some dull turbos out there (all with a lump of torque and no top end), with the right attitude, the hardware, and a clever and properly custom remap, you can get good response, a very linear power delivery and a great top end (provided the turbo is up to it). So, no, I don't think the NAs will appreciate, but they may just depreciate slightly less than before. And I don't think all hope is lost for the future.
g7jhp said:
I'd pick a manual RWD coupe.... 997.2 C2S or GTS.
Naturally aspirated, manual, non-chocolate engine and they're a limited supply as the number bought dropped off due to the financial crisis. If you can get the GTS with buckets even better.
I agree and went for the GTS. I owned two 993,s back in the day and whilst i enjoyed them at the time a revisit recently convinced me i wouldnt swap for my GTS. it really feels like they sorted the bits i didnt rate on the 993. I have no doubt that watercooled N/A special versions will fair well in future 991 GTS included.Naturally aspirated, manual, non-chocolate engine and they're a limited supply as the number bought dropped off due to the financial crisis. If you can get the GTS with buckets even better.
MaxA said:
I was in the market for a simple used 997 Carrera 2S manual but - to my dismay - there weren't any, so either the purists aren't selling, or they didn't buy them in the first place.
We're not, and we did ;-) Looking at the ads (OPC, indie and private), I'd say that my 997.2 C2S is pretty much worth what I paid for it three years and 18k miles ago. It hasn't (so far) cost me excessively either - in fact it has proven pretty cheap to run for the performance so, unless the value equation were to suddenly change, I don't see why I'd sell. The only thing I'd consider p/exing it for would be a GT3 of the same generation, but that's another story…Technomad said:
We're not, and we did ;-) Looking at the ads (OPC, indie and private), I'd say that my 997.2 C2S is pretty much worth what I paid for it three years and 18k miles ago. It hasn't (so far) cost me excessively either - in fact it has proven pretty cheap to run for the performance so, unless the value equation were to suddenly change, I don't see why I'd sell. The only thing I'd consider p/exing it for would be a GT3 of the same generation, but that's another story…
Great to hear you are racking up trouble free miles and very encouraging to hear some positive feedback on these amazing cars..Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff