Buying flat - Roof trusses partially removed

Buying flat - Roof trusses partially removed

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babo456

Original Poster:

76 posts

117 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Hi everyone,

Currently going through the process of buying a flat.

The loft space is huge, floored and has plaster board up on the trusses.

Home report states some trusses MAY have been cut or removed.

It has the 45 degree trusses and the flooring trusses but I would assume its the extra support attached to these that may have been removed.

I don't know what sort of implications this could have home insurance or the roof caving in!

Is it worth trying to get a structual engineer to look?

These changes are long standing 10 years or so.

I may try the neighbour and see if I can get in her loft to see what its like.

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Without seeing the space,met is very hard to be definitive but if, as it sounds from what you say, that this is a loft conversation (or partial conversion) from a former roof void, then it is likely that the roof structure will have been altered to create a more 'open' space.

Again, depending on what work has been done, it is probable that the work will have been subject to building control approval by the local authority, to ensure that the changes to the structure comply with building regulations. Your conveyancing solicitor should ask for sight of the certificate of approval from the local authority building control department as part of the conveyance. If, for whatever reason, this is not available, your solicitor should require the vendor to purchase an indemnity insurance, protecting you against potential non-compliance with building regs. This is not unusual and your solicitor will be able to manage this with little or no impact on the timing of your conveyance..

As to whether the roof structure will be adequate, it is impossible to be certain without inspecting it or seeing the design for how the conversion works were undertaken. If you can get the building control cert, I wouldn't worry about a specific structural survey; if you can't, then an inspection may be worthwhile to put your mind at rest.

Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Saturday 10th October 07:24

Ynox

1,702 posts

178 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Is it a legal conversion? Sounds to me like it probably isn't.

Also - what does the lease term say? I live in a top floor flat and my lease explicitly states I can't convert the loft at all. I'd do some more research into this.

Edit - if it's a freehold just worry about the construction side of things.

Busa mav

2,556 posts

153 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Definitely post up a pic.

From your description , I suspect your terminology is wrong in what you are describing.

Nuisance_Value

721 posts

252 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Ynox said:
Is it a legal conversion? Sounds to me like it probably isn't.

Also - what does the lease term say? I live in a top floor flat and my lease explicitly states I can't convert the loft at all. I'd do some more research into this.

Edit - if it's a freehold just worry about the construction side of things.
Yeah, this is sounding a bit off to me as well. There should be horizontal purlins (big wooden beams) holding up the top chord (45deg bits) or webs (timber the same cross section as the chords) between the top and bottom chords (45deg timbers and the "joists').

Unless the roof space and roof is explicitly part of the freehold of the flat below, then I agree it's a construction / Building Regs / Planning issue.

If, and it's very common that this is the case, the roof and void is part of the communal space (like entrances etc) then this sounds like a bodge job and I'd be very cautious.

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Busa mav said:
Definitely post up a pic.

From your description , I suspect your terminology is wrong in what you are describing.
This. Go Google truss... It is a very specifically designed and engineered unit which relies on every component being present and correct.

babo456

Original Poster:

76 posts

117 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for info so far.

I'll try and get round today or tomorrow and take a few photo.

Can't help but feel someone may have just hack sawed it...

paolow

3,208 posts

257 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
babo456 said:
Hi everyone,


Home report states some trusses MAY have been cut or removed.


I may try the neighbour and see if I can get in her loft to see what its like.
This is what really gets me about these reports. if they really think that some trusses are gone. Mention it.
If they don't think some trusses are gone. Dont mention it.

Don't just sit on the fence and say 'may this' 'could be that' - its just an arse covering excersise that litters such reports. They are supposed to be providing a service - not injecting more worry and ambiguity.

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
paolow said:
babo456 said:
Hi everyone,


Home report states some trusses MAY have been cut or removed.


I may try the neighbour and see if I can get in her loft to see what its like.
This is what really gets me about these reports. if they really think that some trusses are gone. Mention it.
If they don't think some trusses are gone. Dont mention it.

Don't just sit on the fence and say 'may this' 'could be that' - its just an arse covering excersise that litters such reports. They are supposed to be providing a service - not injecting more worry and ambiguity.
To be fair if it's all boarded in there is nothing else they can do.

Little Lofty

3,275 posts

150 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
I recently bought a house that had most of the main roof supports removed by the previous owner during his botched loft conversion. An offer had already been by someone else made but their surveyor put a 100% retention on it as it was unsafe. The first buyer had to pull out so I bought it with a friend. A surveyor should know if it's been altered, it's not for you to make a judgement. If he doesn't know then he's in the wrong job.

V8RX7

26,765 posts

262 months

Saturday 10th October 2015
quotequote all
My question is how bodged/dangerous can it be, if it's been fine for 10yrs ?

Condi

17,089 posts

170 months

Sunday 11th October 2015
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
My question is how bodged/dangerous can it be, if it's been fine for 10yrs ?
Exactly. Survey for my house said the roof trusses needed reinforcing. Considering it had been in the same state for over 40 years I suspect its probably okay for a few more yet.

babo456

Original Poster:

76 posts

117 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
Hi-thanks for comments so far

I went round yesterday, forgot to take photos obviously (doh!)

Theres crawl space all around the plasterboarded loft area and extra supports have been put in on the joists about half way up each joist and then going down into the bottom joists (bottom of the triangle). Apparently before there were 3 joints running pararell on the 45 degree angled joists which have been removed?

I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense!

Only problem is I don't know if there is a warrant for said work. My solicitor is on the case.

I duno how England works but in Scotland home report comments are labled as 1,2 or 3. The joist/trusses MAY or MAY not being altered is down as a 2.

1 being all OK more or less 2. May require attention 3. Needs attention.

Surely if the property was missing any significant structural engineering it would be mentioned?

The home owner said (pinch if salt n all that) the surveyer had been in the crawl space for himself and seemed happy enough.


Edited by babo456 on Monday 12th October 15:22

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
From what you've said my guess is: it won't have building regs, you've got hangers from the rafters to the joists, no substantial load has been applied so everything has been OK so far, if you buy it and don't load it up too much you'll probably be OK, if you want to be sure you'll probably need a SE, BRegs and substantial strengthening; no-one here has enough info to give you a definitive answer on any of the aforementioned. I suppose you could say 'are you feeling lucky?'

(NB floor design load is six times that for a loft.)

monthefish

20,439 posts

230 months

Monday 12th October 2015
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
Your conveyancing solicitor should ask for sight of the certificate of approval from the local authority building control department as part of the conveyance. If, for whatever reason, this is not available, your solicitor should require the vendor to purchase an indemnity insurance, protecting you against potential non-compliance with building regs. This is not unusual and your solicitor will be able to manage this with little or no impact on the timing of your conveyance..
Just a small correction, your solicitor should ask the sellers solicitor for sight of the the certificate of approval from the local authority building control department.

I think that indemnity providers will refuse to offer a policy if the local authority is contacted (or put on notice) prior.