Planning enforcement officer visit
Discussion
Could do with a bit of advice if anyone can help.
We converted our house many years ago into bedsits, each area having its own bathroom, small kitchenette and so on.
Someone has complained to the council that we are renting them as flats. After which I received quite a serious looking letter from the local planning enforcement officer who is coming to visit this week, says he wants to take pictures etc?
There seems to be a bit of a grey area around the term “self-contained” and what is or is not allowed in different parts of the property?
Has anyone had any experience of this specific issue before, I would welcome any advice as its causing a few sleepless nights.
Thanks.
We converted our house many years ago into bedsits, each area having its own bathroom, small kitchenette and so on.
Someone has complained to the council that we are renting them as flats. After which I received quite a serious looking letter from the local planning enforcement officer who is coming to visit this week, says he wants to take pictures etc?
There seems to be a bit of a grey area around the term “self-contained” and what is or is not allowed in different parts of the property?
Has anyone had any experience of this specific issue before, I would welcome any advice as its causing a few sleepless nights.
Thanks.
If the property isn't a HMO - and registered as such - you should still check that your council isn't part of a Selective Licensing PRS scheme. If they are, and you're not regulated, you're possibly going to be made an example of.
Additionally, check that all smoke (and carbon monoxide) detectors are fitted and working. New legislation came in this month that very few landlords appear to know about.
I obviously don't know you from Larry, and would presume that you're a good landlord who has kept abreast of all the recent rules and regulation changes for landlords. However, if you're a part-timer who doesn't know the difference between a Section 8 notice and a 21, or if you haven't appropriately protected your tenants deposits etc, or had annual Gas Safety checks performed, then I would seek professional advice asap.
The best of luck.
Additionally, check that all smoke (and carbon monoxide) detectors are fitted and working. New legislation came in this month that very few landlords appear to know about.
I obviously don't know you from Larry, and would presume that you're a good landlord who has kept abreast of all the recent rules and regulation changes for landlords. However, if you're a part-timer who doesn't know the difference between a Section 8 notice and a 21, or if you haven't appropriately protected your tenants deposits etc, or had annual Gas Safety checks performed, then I would seek professional advice asap.
The best of luck.
Hi
Hard to say without knowing your full situation.
So my brother rents a small studio place in fact tiny. tiny shower room, with tiny kitchenette, (electric hob-
the landlords converted a 3 bedroom house into a few self serviced units, 6 units in total all with kitchenettes...get my drift hes making alot of rent...
A few weeks ago the landlord had the same council issues and a visit, hes familer with the drill and ensured all the hobs/hoods are easily removed....removed hob/hood in less than 15min, once the council visit was over the hob/hoods were reinstalled.
Must be some law that doesn't allow cooking facilities within a room...the house seems to have a HMO.
On the plus side, if your place is big enough meets guidelines for self contained flat it can gain retrospective planning under the 4 year rule for which you need to apply for.
Hard to say without knowing your full situation.
So my brother rents a small studio place in fact tiny. tiny shower room, with tiny kitchenette, (electric hob-
the landlords converted a 3 bedroom house into a few self serviced units, 6 units in total all with kitchenettes...get my drift hes making alot of rent...
A few weeks ago the landlord had the same council issues and a visit, hes familer with the drill and ensured all the hobs/hoods are easily removed....removed hob/hood in less than 15min, once the council visit was over the hob/hoods were reinstalled.
Must be some law that doesn't allow cooking facilities within a room...the house seems to have a HMO.
On the plus side, if your place is big enough meets guidelines for self contained flat it can gain retrospective planning under the 4 year rule for which you need to apply for.
as long as it meets all the guidelines, best bet get some rough floor layouts on to paper go and see a on duty planning officer for quick advise, or a decent architect.
I bought a dental surgery had a make shift flat on the 1st floor, changed teh ground floor to residential use, and then went for retrospective planning for the 1st floor plan which had been build without planning ,but been in place and used for over 7 years.
I bought a dental surgery had a make shift flat on the 1st floor, changed teh ground floor to residential use, and then went for retrospective planning for the 1st floor plan which had been build without planning ,but been in place and used for over 7 years.
newbie29 said:
as long as it meets all the guidelines, best bet get some rough floor layouts on to paper go and see a on duty planning officer for quick advise, or a decent architect.
Sounds like it's a bit late for that now tbhI very much doubt the duty planning officer (if there is one) will be interested in a case where an enforcement officer is involved.
My only advice would be to listen very very closely to what the enforcement officer says, and record/minute it back to them. Sounds like a pants down scenario if the OP has flouted planning/building regs and god knows whatever else and the amount of time elapsed since the conversion won't necessarily help, and may make matters worse
If you're in breach of planning laws there's relatively little that can be done now.
I would highly, HIGHLY, recommend your primary focus is now on ensuring the property (more specifically, your tenants) is safe.
Again, check that smoke (and carbon monoxide) detectors fitted where required. Valid Gas Safety Certificates. Document that you've checked for legionnaires’ disease etc.
If you're in breach of planning regulations and your property is deemed unsafe (even if not structurally unsafe), you're going to need legal representation asap.
This blog offers excellent advice: http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk
I would highly, HIGHLY, recommend your primary focus is now on ensuring the property (more specifically, your tenants) is safe.
Again, check that smoke (and carbon monoxide) detectors fitted where required. Valid Gas Safety Certificates. Document that you've checked for legionnaires’ disease etc.
If you're in breach of planning regulations and your property is deemed unsafe (even if not structurally unsafe), you're going to need legal representation asap.
This blog offers excellent advice: http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk
I've been looking at houses with either basement or annex for a cinema room. A few I looked at had additional kitchens - I discounted those immediately as I read somewhere if there is another kitchen then its classed as a separate habitable area and you're liable for separate council tax. I wonder in your case if you aren't paying business rate so maybe wouldn't count.
Apparently even if you take the kitchen out you can't easily get the status changed, something to do with council only assess every few years. Seemed odd but was enough to put me off.
Apparently even if you take the kitchen out you can't easily get the status changed, something to do with council only assess every few years. Seemed odd but was enough to put me off.
BGARK said:
Just asked a town planner to take a look at the paperwork and offer some advice on the best way to resolve.
That's £150/hr please... great.
Wait till you get the quote for the hourly rate of the solicitors and barristers you need next... If you've been renting out multiple flats in what should be a house without planning permission or building regulations approval you really do need proper professional advice to mitigate what could come your way, and sadly that costs proper money.That's £150/hr please... great.
Tom_C76 said:
Wait till you get the quote for the hourly rate of the solicitors and barristers you need next... If you've been renting out multiple flats in what should be a house without planning permission or building regulations approval you really do need proper professional advice to mitigate what could come your way, and sadly that costs proper money.
Agreed and I don't mind paying, its just when its not your skill-set you don't know if you are getting ripped off or even if they will be able to help?Apologies for 'high-jack', but reading this put the wind up me.
My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
big ant said:
Apologies for 'high-jack', but reading this put the wind up me.
My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
As long as he lives communally with the others, sharing a kitchen, lounge etc rather than providing self contained, locking bedsits with all their own facilities, he'd be fine if it was his house as they'd be standard lodgers. You owning it might complicate things rather, all else apart from a tax POV, as if you're claiming a loss on a BTL and he's taking rent for it... From the HMO point of view you should be OK as there's less than 5 rooms.My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
big ant said:
Apologies for 'high-jack', but reading this put the wind up me.
My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
I suspect that HMRC rather than planning enforcement officers might give you/your son some sleepless nights though! My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
Tom_C76 said:
big ant said:
Apologies for 'high-jack', but reading this put the wind up me.
My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
As long as he lives communally with the others, sharing a kitchen, lounge etc rather than providing self contained, locking bedsits with all their own facilities, he'd be fine if it was his house as they'd be standard lodgers. You owning it might complicate things rather, all else apart from a tax POV, as if you're claiming a loss on a BTL and he's taking rent for it... From the HMO point of view you should be OK as there's less than 5 rooms.My 22 year old son lives in a B2L we own, for free, and he rents out 3 rooms to 3 people...and takes the income.
Been doing it for 18 months now.
No modifications done to this otherwise normal 3 bed (& converted garage)...
Should we or he, be having sleepless nights ??
He gets tenants casually thru Gumtree, etc...
BA
Tom_C76 said:
From the HMO point of view you should be OK as there's less than 5 rooms.
That's not my understanding of a HMO and appears to be poor advice. See: https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/houses-in-multi... - you'd better get out and buy some approved fire extinguishers etc.Your son is letting the rooms out, under what tenancy agreement? Where are the tenancy deposits held?
Additionally, I'd be checking your BTL T&Cs pretty sharpish.
Edited by Andy M on Thursday 15th October 19:37
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