'Importing to France'

'Importing to France'

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TTwiggy

Original Poster:

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
Hello all - I'm after a little advice if you please

Sadly, despite only having my Caterham since July I need to sell it (long story short - my GF has taken voluntary redundancy and we are trying to get a business started, so any and all cash is needed!).

Anyway, I have it up on the PH classifieds and have recieved an email from someone who wants (possibly) to import it to France but he needs the first 12 numbers from the VIN (or SN, as he says) as she says only some cars can be imported.

His email started 'I am interested in your Caterham All Models', and to be honest if I was selling a normal car my scam sense would be yelling 'don't touch this with a large stick', but I am aware that the market for these cars is a little different.

So, in brief, is there any truth in his claim that only some cars can be improted to France (surely it's the same acorss the EU?) and would there be any scam involving the VIN number?

I would of course take all the usual precautions with regards to payments.

Cheers

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
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My scam detector is ringing loudly here. The "Caterham All Models" stuff suggests this is an automated scam, which picks up make/model from the classifieds grouping. The automated script dangles the "hook" and waits for a response - when you respond you will likely then be engaged by a person who will perform the attempted scamming.

However, if it wasn't a scam then yes, there are restrictions on what models can be imported to France, and the Caterham is not homologated, so generally it can't be legally registered in France without some sort of fiddle where the registered keeper is still in the UK - although I stand to be corrected.

There is also no real harm in sending someone your VIN, they can't really do anything nefarious with it, but it does tell the scammer you are a live "fish".

If it were me, I'd be ignoring that email.

TTwiggy

Original Poster:

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
GreigM said:
My scam detector is ringing loudly here. The "Caterham All Models" stuff suggests this is an automated scam, which picks up make/model from the classifieds grouping. The automated script dangles the "hook" and waits for a response - when you respond you will likely then be engaged by a person who will perform the attempted scamming.

However, if it wasn't a scam then yes, there are restrictions on what models can be imported to France, and the Caterham is not homologated, so generally it can't be legally registered in France without some sort of fiddle where the registered keeper is still in the UK - although I stand to be corrected.

There is also no real harm in sending someone your VIN, they can't really do anything nefarious with it, but it does tell the scammer you are a live "fish".

If it were me, I'd be ignoring that email.
Cheers - pretty much my thoughts, though the fact that there are restrictions might (only might!) suggest that it's real.

I will ignore it for now and see if there's any follow up email which might point to it being genuine. Even if it is though, the ad has only been live for a couple of days so I'd rather avoid the hassle of an export sale unless I get really desperate for a buyer.

Abbott

2,339 posts

202 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
Of course you need to be cautious but importing a 7 into France is far from straight forward and absolutely has nothing to do with there being unified EU regulations on the subject. This is France you are dealing with.
If you want to bring a car into france then there a number of factors that can very easily be cleared up by understanding the the VIN number.

The 1st point for an importer to understand is if the vehicle is factory built or Kit built. Kit built is a no no and would be very difficult to pass the authorities.
The next txtep is to check if teh vehicle is on the list of already accepted and homolgated vehicles in France

Les seuls modèles de Caterham homologués par type en France sont celles équipées avec :
le moteur Ford 1600 GT, moteur Rover 1400K, 1600K, 1800 VVC, moteur Opel HPC ainsi que les plus récents modèles ayant obtenu une homologation européenne (Ford Sigma et Ford Duratec 175).


So basically the Rover engined cars and the old crossflows, VX and some of teh more modern Fords

If your man is genuine then he will want to check the VIN number as buting the wrong type of car can be excrutiatingly painful.
Also in France the same 7 will cost at least twice ase much as in UK

TTwiggy

Original Poster:

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
Abbott said:
Of course you need to be cautious but importing a 7 into France is far from straight forward and absolutely has nothing to do with there being unified EU regulations on the subject. This is France you are dealing with.
If you want to bring a car into france then there a number of factors that can very easily be cleared up by understanding the the VIN number.

The 1st point for an importer to understand is if the vehicle is factory built or Kit built. Kit built is a no no and would be very difficult to pass the authorities.
The next txtep is to check if teh vehicle is on the list of already accepted and homolgated vehicles in France

Les seuls modèles de Caterham homologués par type en France sont celles équipées avec :
le moteur Ford 1600 GT, moteur Rover 1400K, 1600K, 1800 VVC, moteur Opel HPC ainsi que les plus récents modèles ayant obtenu une homologation européenne (Ford Sigma et Ford Duratec 175).


So basically the Rover engined cars and the old crossflows, VX and some of teh more modern Fords

If your man is genuine then he will want to check the VIN number as buting the wrong type of car can be excrutiatingly painful.
Also in France the same 7 will cost at least twice ase much as in UK
Ok, that's interesting, thanks. I'm pretty sure that my car was built by a race company, so I don't know if that makes it a kit (I guess it does, as it wasn't built by Caterham). It is a K-series, so it would be ok there.

I suppose there's no harm in pinging the VIN over to him.

Abbott

2,339 posts

202 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
Yes, you dont have to give the last few digits that would uniquly identify your car.

This is the sort of inf he will be checking your VIN against

http://sevener.fr/article.php?id=88815&ref=957...
Ther eis a little French there but most is understandable English

TTwiggy

Original Poster:

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
quotequote all
Abbott said:
Yes, you dont have to give the last few digits that would uniquly identify your car.

This is the sort of inf he will be checking your VIN against

http://sevener.fr/article.php?id=88815&ref=957...
Ther eis a little French there but most is understandable English
Ah - ok. He only asked for the first 12 numbers/letters so maybe he is genuine.

rotorwings

208 posts

124 months

Tuesday 13th October 2015
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There are very few common rules for importing vehicles into the continent. Every country seems to have its own process, often with illogical requirements.
I imported a Caterham from the UK and registered it in Germany, and I still don't fully understand everything smile So expect some questions that might sound 'not right' by UK standards, and don't be surprised if even the buyer is confused.

Remember, the language barrier might make something sound more suspicious than it is, but If at all in doubt ask for copies of photo IDs.
Being that you are the seller, you really hold all the cards. My own story of buying a UK car sight-unseen from Germany included many small points that could have appeared 'suspicious', but were all completely above board.

TTwiggy

Original Poster:

11,500 posts

203 months

Wednesday 14th October 2015
quotequote all
rotorwings said:
There are very few common rules for importing vehicles into the continent. Every country seems to have its own process, often with illogical requirements.
I imported a Caterham from the UK and registered it in Germany, and I still don't fully understand everything smile So expect some questions that might sound 'not right' by UK standards, and don't be surprised if even the buyer is confused.

Remember, the language barrier might make something sound more suspicious than it is, but If at all in doubt ask for copies of photo IDs.
Being that you are the seller, you really hold all the cards. My own story of buying a UK car sight-unseen from Germany included many small points that could have appeared 'suspicious', but were all completely above board.
Cheers - he's been back in touch today so I think it's probably on the level. Still not sure I want to get involved in all the potential hassle, but a buyer is a buyer I guess.

Abbott

2,339 posts

202 months

Wednesday 14th October 2015
quotequote all
There should be no additional hassle for you. Making sure he hands over the money in a bank tranfer or whatever is the same risk as a UK buyer. If he is keen then he is likely to be very flexible in doing what you want as it is a big benefit for him if the car is the right spec.

Steve-B

702 posts

281 months

Saturday 17th October 2015
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THIS IS ABSOLUTELY a scam approach -- I've had 6 in the last 3 weeks and PH's Moderators have confirmed my suspicions on EVERY one of the approaches.

The "Caterham All Models" is the current alarm bell but I'm sure they're reading these forums and will shortly try a.n.other.....!

rotorwings

208 posts

124 months

Saturday 17th October 2015
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Steve-B said:
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY a scam approach -- I've had 6 in the last 3 weeks and PH's Moderators have confirmed my suspicions on EVERY one of the approaches.
Can you share some details? How does the scam work? What are they trying to gain?

Edited by rotorwings on Saturday 17th October 20:17

Steve-B

702 posts

281 months

Sunday 18th October 2015
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Firstly they're asking for post code and then saying they'll turn up on X day with cash and are agreeing a price without seeing it.

The PH mods are working hard playing whack a mole on their IDs when you report them. You can check how long their IDs have been registered as another clue.

Lastly their email FULL headers are not coming from pistonheads.com.




Ps> All I want to do is sell my well looked after SV. I don't need the faff they're causing!

rotorwings

208 posts

124 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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Steve-B said:
Firstly they're asking for post code and then saying they'll turn up on X day with cash and are agreeing a price without seeing it.

The PH mods are working hard playing whack a mole on their IDs when you report them. You can check how long their IDs have been registered as another clue.

Lastly their email FULL headers are not coming from pistonheads.com.
It certainly sounds like cause to be wary.
If they are spoofing emails, then it is almost certainly a scam.

But not everything that sounds weird is a scam:
I bought my car, sight unseen, and after only a few minutes on the phone to the seller. What's more, I was "an Australian, who is living in Germany, but will be picking up the car next week with a Polish registered car carrier". Does that sound fishy, or what!? Of course it was all genuine. Oh, and I did need the complete VIN (and many other details) to do what I had to do in Germany before picking up the car (as well as HPI checks etc..). And my PH ID was created only maybe a few weeks earlier.

I would say:
- Exchange photo ID's in advance (more than one, and buyer first)
- Do some internet research for details on the other person.
- Insist on a reasonable deposit by bank transfer
- Insist on ALL payment via bank transfer. (cash is too risky)

Unless the seller is not being sensible, it is the buyer who is really taking the risk.






Steve-B

702 posts

281 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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I absolutely agree RW, there are a LOT of legitimate buyers out there. Sadly these p1ll0ck$ are causing PH and it's users a right load of bother....

Ziplobb

1,350 posts

283 months

Wednesday 21st October 2015
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I sold mine to a chap from France - IIRC his name was Nick - he was a regular buyer and paid cash when he turned up so no worries.