A what would you do....

[creampuff]

Just after some different opinions with this question:

Have been working in oil industry (office job, not offshore). Oil industry down toilet, no oil jobs around, thousands laid off including me, so have just got a new job in another sector.

The new job is pretty good in almost every way. I'm very happy with it - except for one thing, the pay. Because it isn't the oil industry, it only pays half as much as what I'm used to (actually less than half). I've done the sums and the new job will pay living expenses but there is zero left over for longer term expenses like replacing cars, taking anything more than basic holidays etc.

There is no local oil work at the moment and I can't see any happening until mid-2016.

However I do have a choice: a job in Saudi Arabia has come up. This pays the same oil/gas rate that I'm used to. The downside is it is in Saudi Arabia. I'd be leaving my family behind in the UK.

So, in the immediate term, should I go to Saudi for more cash or should I stay in the UK in a job which is good, allows me to see my family each day, but only pays the basic bills?

As I said, the UK oil industry may pick up again in mid-2016. Or it might not.

Edited by creampuff on Thursday 5th November 16:40

[rog007]

I guess if you're having to ask...

Whilst the current role pays what it does, you've not mentioned potential for advancement. Equally, some additional qualifications taken in your own time may also aid that advancement, either in the existing organisation or another. Cream always rises to the top some say.

Good luck!

[creampuff]

rog007 said:

I guess if you're having to ask...

Whilst the current role pays what it does, you've not mentioned potential for advancement. Equally, some additional qualifications taken in your own time may also aid that advancement, either in the existing organisation or another. Cream always rises to the top some say.

Good luck!

Thanks. Oil/gas pays better than everything else I could remotely hope to do and it probably always will. The new job I think is not tenable in the long term. I could however stick it out for 1-2 years, just because it is interesting and I am learning stuff. Even if I stayed in the new job for some time and increased my pay by a third, it would be the difference between earning about 60% of my previous oil/gas earnings rather than the 45% of previous oil/gas starting salary which I'm on now.

Longer term, it would be crazy for me to leave the oil/gas industry. It would also be risky to leave it for more than about 2 years as it may make it harder to go back.

So, going back to oil/gas when it picks up is a definite. The question is should I dump the new job for an oil job in Saudi Arabia now? Should I dump the new job mid-year 2016 when the UK market may pick up again or should I stick it out until some time in 2017?

My immediate problem is should I go to Saudi Arabia or not?

[Troubleatmill]

No one on their death bed says I wish I spent more time in the office

Spend it with your family.

The kids will be up and gone before you know it.

They won't care about the toys/ gadgets or anything else that you buy
They will remember all the time you spent with them


^ It is this in spades.

[andy-xr]

creampuff said:

Thanks. Oil/gas pays better than everything else I could remotely hope to do and it probably always will. The new job I think is not tenable in the long term. I could however stick it out for 1-2 years, just because it is interesting and I am learning stuff. Even if I stayed in the new job for some time and increased my pay by a third, it would be the difference between earning about 60% of my previous oil/gas earnings rather than the 45% of previous oil/gas starting salary which I'm on now.

Longer term, it would be crazy for me to leave the oil/gas industry. It would also be risky to leave it for more than about 2 years as it may make it harder to go back.

So, going back to oil/gas when it picks up is a definite. The question is should I dump the new job for an oil job in Saudi Arabia now? Should I dump the new job mid-year 2016 when the UK market may pick up again or should I stick it out until some time in 2017?

My immediate problem is should I go to Saudi Arabia or not?

You're on crack.

You've been let go from a job in a field because it's too volatile but you're convincing yourself that it'll pick up again, long term it'll work out for you. It's no different to a gambling addiction. Your life will be ups and downs, and from the sounds of it, you're not prepared enough for the downs. You've got no umbrellas left in the rack so you're standing out in the rain getting piss wet through.

Get your finances together and belt up. Oil and gas isnt sustainable for you, get the pain over with now and get out of it, or build up some resilience in your wallet for when it's going to go st again

[dingg]

I'd go to Saudi - it'll be a hard couple of years though IME.

[21TonyK]

You say family, does this mean wife & kids? If so stick it out here and keep looking. Otherwise I'd be off like a shot.

[creampuff]

andy-xr said:

You're on crack.

You've been let go from a job in a field because it's too volatile but you're convincing yourself that it'll pick up again, long term it'll work out for you. It's no different to a gambling addiction. Your life will be ups and downs, and from the sounds of it, you're not prepared enough for the downs. You've got no umbrellas left in the rack so you're standing out in the rain getting piss wet through.

Oil and gas has always been volatile. This is about the 4th time in my career over two decades there has been an oil price collapse and large scale oil/gas unemployment, it has always picked up after variable period of time. This has nothing to do with a gambling addiction any more than anybody who works in any commodity sector is a gambler. Almost all commodities have volatile prices. Do you remember not too long ago when the price of bananas peaked, then collapsed - I don't hear anybody saying people who work in the banana industry are gamblers. My opinion is it will pick up somewhere between March 2016 and March 2017 and probably around mid-2016: I really don't see what a fluctuating commodity prices have anything to do with people working in those industries being on crack.

Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 27th October 11:20

[andy-xr]

creampuff said:

Oil and gas has always been volatile. This is about the 4th time in my career there has been an oil price collapse, it has always picked up after variable period of time. This has nothing to do with a gambling addiction any more than anybody who works in any commodity sector is a gambler. Do you remember not too long ago when the price of bananas peaked, then collapsed - I don't hear anybody saying people who work in the banana industry are gamblers.

That sounds like an excuse. But if you'd prefer I can say 'Sure Creamy, oil and gas is the one!!! Saudi!! Go for it!'?

Read this again:

creampuff said:

Because it isn't the oil industry, it only pays half as much as what I'm used to (actually less than half). I've done the sums and the new job will pay living expenses but there is zero left over for longer term expenses like replacing cars, taking anything more than basic holidays etc. I'd like to make the new job work, but it cannot work long term due to the pay.

Maybe you were making that much money that you grew to a lifestyle that's in a non-sustainable bubble? That's borne out with this

creampuff said:

As I said, the UK oil industry may pick up again in mid-2016. Or it might not.

My point is, if you're hopping you need more backup than you have. It might be that oil and gas is the future for you but if you're at a point now where you've got fk all coming in and there's no prospects of that changing for at least another 6-9 months, bearing in mind this is crash #4 - how protected are you going to be with crash #5 and is that important?

[creampuff]

..

Edited by creampuff on Thursday 5th November 16:36

[creampuff]

andy-xr said:

My point is, if you're hopping you need more backup than you have. It might be that oil and gas is the future for you but if you're at a point now where you've got fk all coming in and there's no prospects of that changing for at least another 6-9 months, bearing in mind this is crash #4 - how protected are you going to be with crash #5 and is that important?

This is mostly a one-off problem. I bought an apartment as part of my retirement plan, which ate all my cash reserves. If the timing had been different, the same lay-off/job in different industry wouldn't have been a problem. My lifestyle hasn't substantially adjusted to an oil/gas income, it is just this time a shortage of free cash has happened to coincide with being out of work and a lower paying job. Not having spare cash and no way to build up spare cash in the short term, with the new job, is bothering to me.

Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 27th October 11:33

[Munter]

creampuff said:

21TonyK said:

You say family, does this mean wife & kids? If so stick it out here and keep looking. Otherwise I'd be off like a shot.

Yes wife and kids. I'm balancing a guaranteed better paying job in somewhere where I don't want to go (Saudi) with my feeling that I'll be able to get a local UK job mid next year on about 80% of the Saudi job income, which would be plenty enough.

IMO. You'd be mad to leave. Tighten the belt a little. It'll help you save for the next down turn.

Unless the wife will not love you with a slightly older smaller car and house, and a cheaper holiday. In which case you've got bigger problems.

[crofty1984]

I wouldn't in your shoes. Away from the family in a place with no beer, no porn and no bacon - no thankyou. I like the middle east, but I can't think of a worse place than Saudi. I'd do it for a year or so if I was single, but it would have to pay a fkton.

[GT03ROB]

If the new job only cover the basics, but is not intended to be long term, then it's hardly the end of the world.

If you are considering Saudi then consider the following:

• who are you going to be working for? International contractor/Aramco or local outfit?
• will you get stay there until April 2017? Makes a huge difference to value of the offer IE no tax
• where are you going to be located? Eastern province...great...Bahrain every weekend for beer & bacon
• whats the leave cycle?
• is the offer all that you think? do they provide cars/accommodation/subsistence/leave travel
• have you had any experience of the middle east? Do you know what you are getting into? If you've not done the Mid east before this assignment may leave you better positioned for jobs in more family friendly mid east location.

Saudi is perfectly survivable, I've done enough time there.

The stress of being away from the family is a completely different issue & only you & your wife can assess if this is worth going through

[creampuff]

GT03ROB said:

If the new job only cover the basics, but is not intended to be long term, then it's hardly the end of the world.

I'm only considering Saudi as I _think_ the oil industry will pick up again in mid-2016. But I could be wrong. Saudi is guaranteed long term cash with an international EPC company.

[GT03ROB]

creampuff said:

GT03ROB said:

If the new job only cover the basics, but is not intended to be long term, then it's hardly the end of the world.

I'm only considering Saudi as I _think_ the oil industry will pick up again in mid-2016. But I could be wrong. Saudi is guaranteed long term cash with an international EPC company.

Well as long as it's Western & not Petrofac you'll be fine.

I was at an oil industry conference 2 weeks ago & the chief executive of OPEC was a speaker. He maintained the OPEC countries would continue to invest in new production. I'm in Kuwait & the evidence is they will. The $16bn Al Zour refinery had all the main EPC contracts signed off 2 weeks back. The upstream projects I'm working on all seem to be being accelerated, rather than slowed. Will be interesting to see if this is mirrored elsewhere but I suspect not.

[creampuff]

Mmm, something will have to happen before too long as the Gulf States are running out of cash.

I've never worked for Petrofac. What's up/wrong with them?

[anonymous-user]

Creampuff has a serious point about needing to be out of the UK until April 2017, or you could pay UK tax on all the money you made in Saudi so take advice, and look at how long you can be in the UK on family visits/meeting family elsewhere for holidays.
Personally I wouldn't entertain Saudi, but can you get to Bahrain at weekend? Only you know if Saudi is worth it to you. I have loads of mates who work for Petrofac never known any of them to have an issue. Again personal but I would never work on a Shell project again from choice.

[GT03ROB]

creampuff said:

I've never worked for Petrofac. What's up/wrong with them?

Petrofac from a clients perspective are fairly food, performance wise they are certainly up there.

My experience with them was that I found them to be highly unprofessional in the recruitment arena. I was head hunted by them via another company a few years ago for a job in Sharjah. When I'm approached I am totally transparent about my expectations, so that we don't waste each others time. I was with Petrofac. I had a phone interview with them, which only happened at the 3rd attempt. The previous 2 they didn't contact me at the arranged time & day, no apology or notice of cancellation. Again at this call I repeated clearly my expectations. After this I met with one of their directors for a discussion/interview & he confirmed they would make me an offer. He stated my expectations would not be a problem. A week later I got the offer, not even close to expectations & significantly less than I was already on. A total waste of all of our time, no explanation, nothing. I've been contacted by recruiters subsequently & have always said I wouldn't consider Petrofac; a surprising number say I don't blame you!

[Ghost91]

I'm also in an industry that's quite unpredictable, and recently had to take a 'break' from my usual job, and go elsewhere. Working away even in the UK had a horrible impact on my home life, I managed to avoid going abroad as this would of made it even worse... Some people manage fine with it but I don't recommend it personally. I ended up taking work £10 an hour less than what I was used to just to be nearer home and be home every evening, it's worth it to me. Some industries are uncertain and I don't agree with someone above calling you a gambling addict... Things will pick up again for sure and I supoose when they do you know now to keep some money aside as do I.

Some lifestyle changes short term might be a good sacrifice for you to keep your family happy, and yourself as while working away seems exciting the novelty does wear off very quickly. In my situation ive vowed to try and keep a few grand in the bank now incase this happens again so I don't have to go and do st work - in reality that probably means owning an extra car while the money is flowing and selling it if I need to - win win!

I'm not too clued up on the oil industry but perhaps there are some jobs in Dubai or somewhere similar so you could take your family with you? If you know its only for a year or two - good English speaking education, it's a safe enough place and the laws a little more relaxed than Saudi.

Edited by Ghost91 on Monday 2nd November 06:12