Alfa 159 advice

[sat1983]

Always had german cars but these are extremely tempting. Currently, have a 200k miles A4 which hasn't put a foot wrong since the start of my ownership 2 years ago. However its so dull to look at.....

I've up to £8k to spend and seen nice ones at that price range. But seen a £3k one- and can't help but think that if it does go wrong I have a reserve to fix it.

Are they generally reliable? Should I spend more? Advice please!

[carinaman]

Some links may help:

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-anda...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=148...

A 156 owner said the same, that the 159 felt heavier and they replaced their 156 with another 156.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=1&a...

[silverthorn2151]

I love my 159. I had thought about one for ages and took the plunge with a 2.4 lusso. It's an old engine to be fair and can sound a bit like a bag of spinners in a tumble drier but it's 210bhp and lots of torque.

It's a great place to be and I struggle to see something as stylish to replace it. Your budget will get you a nice one. The ti model had bigger wheels and is a little stiffer. I prefer mine though and it has taken us all over the place in the UK and in France . Still get that little buzz when you see it in the car park.

Red is the only colour though.

Go on, what's the worst that can happen? Lots of advice on the usual forums like Alfaowner.

[cavebloke]

silverthorn2151 said:

Go on, what's the worst that can happen?

Well... I bought a £5k 2007 159 2.2JTS Ti (I don't do diesel) and it's cost me £5k in the first year to put it right. It looked like a near perfect example when I bought it with only 56k miles and full service history.

But then:
Gearbox failed
Timing chain stretched
Developed a suspension knock that the "specialist" still can't solve

In my opinion they are gorgeous but badly made with poor reliability - if you're used to German reliability then it will likely be a shock. What's odd with the 2.2 is that the engine and gearbox are from GM but I guess they were built to Italian standards of reliability. Also the standard engine map is awful so I still need to fork out for a remap but can't afford it right now.

I haven't sold it, which tells you something. It does feel heavy but that contributes to a very planted feeling and it really grips. The atmosphere is very much more continent crushing GT than sports (despite what Alfa marketing says).
It's true that I still look back at it when I walk away and it is gorgeous. But it is a love/hate relationship.

[Tries to avoid drawing parallels with Italian women]

[ian996]

cavebloke said:

In my opinion they are gorgeous but badly made with poor reliability - if you're used to German reliability then it will likely be a shock. What's odd with the 2.2 is that the engine and gearbox are from GM but I guess they were built to Italian standards of reliability.

Sorry to hear of your experience with your 159, but I think the statement about Italian reliability is a little harsh. Up until this year, I've exclusively driven Alfa's for the last 20 + years (three 164, one GTV V6 and one 156 GTA). In that time, I've had one failure (a cambelt went on a 164 with over 120,000 miles when I strayed a bit too close to Alfa's "optimistic" belt-life limit). My 156 GTA has just reached 96,000 miles and still feels tight as a drum.

Obviously, this experience is not strictly relevant to a 159 buyer (sorry OP!) but In my experience, modern-day Alfa's are pretty well screwed together, and it is possible your 159 was just a lemon. I now have an Audi as well as the 156 and while, touch wood, no problems with the Audi so far, I have been surprised at the volume of build-quality gripes I see in the various Audi forums.

[DeltonaS]

cavebloke said:

Well... I bought a £5k 2007 159 2.2JTS Ti (I don't do diesel) and it's cost me £5k in the first year to put it right. It looked like a near perfect example when I bought it with only 56k miles and full service history.

But then:
Gearbox failed
Timing chain stretched
Developed a suspension knock that the "specialist" still can't solve

In my opinion they are gorgeous but badly made with poor reliability - if you're used to German reliability then it will likely be a shock. What's odd with the 2.2 is that the engine and gearbox are from GM but I guess they were built to Italian standards of reliability. Also the standard engine map is awful so I still need to fork out for a remap but can't afford it right now.

Had a 159 2.2 for 4 years/60K km. Like most I had the same issue with the cam chain (which by the way costs slighly more to fix than a V6 cambelt change). I was told the replacement parts (cam chain + other parts like tensioner) should resolve the problem since the tensioner is upgraded (which is I believe the actual problem ??). I changed the mapping as well, standard map has an ackward, annoying gas pedal timing at low rpm's. Never had issues with the gearbox.

Other than that is was faultless and reasonably economical. In comparison with a 166 2.5 V6 for instance, which has the same specs (weight/HP/torque), it's about 15% more economical.

Having read all sorts of English/German/Dutch Alfa Forums I can safely say the 159 is a reliable car. Problems are all known, nothing extreme, but do differ per engine.

cavebloke said:

I haven't sold it, which tells you something. It does feel heavy but that contributes to a very planted feeling and it really grips. The atmosphere is very much more continent crushing GT than sports (despite what Alfa marketing says).
It's true that I still look back at it when I walk away and it is gorgeous. But it is a love/hate relationship.

The 159 is not light, but it didn't feel really heavy to me. Funny thing is the 159 is on average lighter than an Audi A4 B8 (when compared with the same engines); but somehow the A4 was never critized for it's weight. Steering rack of the 159 is pleasantly fast, but does not communicate much. Same for the underpinnings, better sorted/balanced than an 147/156, but all a bit detached. Car does feel pretty stiff, big step up in that regard vs. the 147/156, as a consequence it doesn't rattle. Quality of the leather is good as well (resistant to wear), it looked great when I sold it at 100K km.

And totally agree on the cruising GT aspect, it's more at home on a fast (winding) Autobahn route than om a small B road. It is remarkble stable at high speeds too; did max. 147 mph in it and it felt still really stable and planted. Totally diff. than a Volvo S60 for instance.

To me the 159 is a big step up in comparison with it's previous generation, stiffer, safer, better materials used, better sorted suspension. Engines though are not as characterfull/revy, steering and suspension feel a bit detached. Best engines in my book are the 1750 TBI and 2.0 JTDM.

Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 19th November 11:50

[1878]

silverthorn2151 said:

Go on, what's the worst that can happen?

Well in my case it was having the timing chain jump and turn a V6 into a V2 with a £4k bill for engine rebuild and 12 months of legal to-and-fro with the dealer. But aside from that...

[davebem]

I think the lesson in this thread is dont buy an Alfa with a GM sourced engine!

[robbo 2006]

I'm on my second 159. The first was a 2.4 Ti remapped and pulled with a tilde wave of torque. Now on a late run 1750 which is a better balanced car. Both stunners inside and out. And generally pretty reliable. The only big cost is 19" in tyres and Ti alloy refurbishment. Ouch.

[silverthorn2151]

1878 said:

silverthorn2151 said:

Go on, what's the worst that can happen?

Well in my case it was having the timing chain jump and turn a V6 into a V2 with a £4k bill for engine rebuild and 12 months of legal to-and-fro with the dealer. But aside from that...

That's horrid, but not really a feature unique to 159's.

[jamies30]

silverthorn2151 said:

1878 said:

Well in my case it was having the timing chain jump and turn a V6 into a V2 with a £4k bill for engine rebuild and 12 months of legal to-and-fro with the dealer. But aside from that...

That's horrid, but not really a feature unique to 159's.

That was what made my Passat uneconomical to repair. To be fair, the V5 was an atrocious engine at the best of times, so it was almost a mercy killing.

[rxe]

You've probably bought it (or not) by now, but we've had our 2.4 for 5 years and 50k miles, bought it at 40k. So it is a 7 year old car with 90k on the clock. In our ownership it has needed:

- PAS pulley, the rubber damper delaminates and makes an awful noise. Not a hard job.
- rear coil spring snapped, easy fix

That's it, apart from routine servicing. Ours is remapped to allegedly 260 HP, and a tidal wave of torque. When spun up, it is as fast as my GT 3.2, so I sort of believe the power claims.

The engine is old tech, and they are known to go on beyond 200k if looked after. The 2.4 gear boxes are fine. I think the 1.9s are different. The petrols are known to have problems, I would avoid - if you are doing long distance a 2.4 is absolutely what you need.

If you get a Ti, the alloys are hell to keep tidy, if you touch anything, the metal gets chipped. Accelera tyres (cheap) are fine on 19" wheels in the summer, but get interesting when it is cold. They are apparently awful on 18" rims. The car does eat tyres if the tracking is even slightly off.

Alfaowner mentioned upthread, an absolute gold mine of information, never seen a resource quite like it for any other marque.

Edited by rxe on Saturday 12th December 10:01

[jamieandthemagic]

Great car, well built, did 80,000 miles in mine. Build quality inside on par with Germans.

Only gripe, heavy struggled on fuel economy...... 1.9jtd struggled to hit 42mpg

But red dot remap hit 190bhp.

[Tim16V]

Watch out for very rusty front sub frames too. The Autolusso Facebook page shows that this is a big job and seems very relatively common to the 159 and Brera.

[Andy1984]

Hi there,

I absolutely love my 159 and never had a problem with it. I'm selling it as I recently got a new job and company car! Interested?

[snorkel sucker]

Had one for about 6 months. It had a persistent shudder under braking that could not be solved even after several trips back to the dealer and (allegedly) an Alfa Romeo Master Technician. New discs, pads, suspension, the lot.

I ended up telling the finance company the could have it back.

The engine is very old now and, although torquey, was unrefined and generally unresponsive. The handling was average at best.

As an object to look at, it was wonderful, but as a car to drive and generally act as a reliable mode of transport, it was shocking. Or at least the one I had was! Shame really, as they do look lovely!

[DkVelo]

Go for TI models or similar.
I have a 2007 2.4 and I just love the huge torque 500 Nm and the big brakes.
The 2.2's needs to have the oil changed 2 times the original rate. Because og change failure risk.
That and rusty buttom parts.
Otherwise a good and safe car, with nice comfort.
We seat 3 adults and 2 smaller kids (kid in front and kid in middle rear) and we can easily do 200 km stints between pauses.