RE: SEAT Ibiza Cupra: Driven
Saturday 28th November 2015
The fast SEAT formula is a familiar one now, but a successful one that continues to deliver impressive hot hatches: use proven VW mechanicals, cover them in a more stylish body with a cheaper price and job's a good'n. Paint it yellow - well, hopefully - and you're onto another great value hot hatch that owners love.
This new Ibiza Cupra adopts the mechanical changes introduced on the Polo GTI last year, and very encouraging they are too. A 1.8-litre turbo replaces the old 1.4, bringing with it another 12hp (for a total of 192) and 52lb ft (now a Mountune Fiesta-equalling 236lb ft). It's a lighter engine too, taking 7kg from the old unit at 133kg. Furthermore, the only gearbox option now is a six-speed manual, a total volte-face from the group and the DSG-only trio offered before. An exciting combo, right?
This is what we mean about exhaust fakeryInside it is again quite mature as small hot hatches go. There isn't a wildly bolstered seat or racy steering wheel, just a well constructed and simple to operate interior that is certainly good enough, albeit fairly tame for a car with a 'Cup Racing' badge. Certainly though anyone jumping from a Fiesta will be taken aback at the improvement in quality. That may well count for quite a lot. It's a pleasant enough place to sit without really ever feeling especially sporty. The integrated Apple Carplay works superbly through; again you may scoff, but as connectivity becomes ever more important it could be a key advantage for the SEAT.
Yes, just over six kilometres of Spanish tarmac, closed to the public and free to drive as you wish once the disclaimer is signed. It's a real show of confidence from SEAT, both in the car's abilities and also those of the journalists... An Ibiza on twisty Spanish tarmac is enough to bring out the tarmac rally driver in anyone, so perhaps it's a good job they weren't yellow.
Problem is the Ibiza just feels a little too grown up when you really push. The driver aids can't be fully disabled, so when you do breach the limits of the front axle it becomes a scrappy combination of the traction control and XDS+ diff-aping system to contain the understeer. There's little that can be done about it either, the Ibiza less responsive to a lift than the Fiesta or the 208 and the handling balance rather prescriptive, lacking the excitement the best cars in this class have.
But isn't that the whole point of a junior hot hatch? They're meant to be rambunctious, feisty and boisterous little tykes of cars, begging to be thrashed at every opportunity. That the Ibiza doesn't ever feel like that seems like something of a missed opportunity, particularly given the very high standard set by the Leon and SEAT's positioning as the sporty VW brand. With UK prices yet to be announced, it will have to be a decent chunk cheaper than the Polo GTI for buyers not to opt for the full mature 'mini hot hatch. Apparently they are aiming for as close to £18K as possible, which it really needs to be with the Polo at £18,900.
SEAT Ibiza Cupra: Driven
A bigger engine and a manual gearbox for the fast Ibiza, so is this finally car to beat the Fiesta ST?
The Ibiza remains a sharp looking hatch too, silly exhaust fakery notwithstanding. It sits more assertively than the Fiesta ST but less aggressively than the Corsa VXR, the Cupra wheels and badges doing just enough to mark it out as more interesting than standard. But no, you still can't have yellow. Shame.
This is what we mean about exhaust fakery
To more pressing PH concerns. As is the way with VW turbocharged engines at the moment, this new 1.8-litre is willing and responsive while never being particularly exciting. That enhanced torque peak is available from 1,450 to 4,300rpm, meaning it will haul out of hairpins really nicely; it's here where the cubic capacity the Ibiza holds over its rivals becomes most noticeable. Peak power is there from 4,300 until 6,200rpm, with the limiter at 7,000. So while the numbers show it isn't really worth chasing every rev, the engine is at least eager enough to let you hold a gear should the situation dictate it. Like flat out on a closed mountain road...
How is the car? Pretty decent actually, and better than you would probably think. The brakes seems less snatchy than other fast VW products, traction is good despite the lack of a diff or the VAQ system and it feels easily quick enough to match the rest in this class. It even gets fancy pants adaptive dampers, linked to a Sport mode with a bit more noise and some added heft to the steering. They work well in fact, providing comfort a Fiesta could only dream of while also keeping things well controlled enough, if not brilliantly, when things take a turn for the hooligan.
Furthermore, while it may seem hypocritical to now criticise a manual, the shift is rather lifeless and not all that rewarding. It's fine, but will never engage you like the best manual gearboxes. That you have to reach down a little too low for the gearstick is rather annoying as well. Ho hum.
It's best to think of the Ibiza then as a more mature hot hatch package concentrated into a smaller size. For those people who find the Fiesta a little too rowdy and the 208 too focused on outright speed, the Ibiza will be perfect. It's fast and fun enough up to a point, looks funky inside and out and comes very well equipped. For full real-world kudos, it's very comfortable and refined on the motorway too. For people who don't want to drive everywhere like their pants are on fire the Ibiza has a great deal to offer.
This isn't a transformation of the smallest SEAT Cupra then, instead a worthwhile enhancement of what it did well before while also improving certain areas. One more manual and three-door only hot hatch is good news in our books! But while existing fans will find plenty to enjoy, there's not sufficient change to upset the hierarchy in this very talented class. It's becoming almost a cliche to state it, but you really can't have more fun in a hot hatch than a Fiesta ST. From a PH perspective that has to remain first choice.
However, there is one glimmer of hope to end on. A very speculative one, but here we go: next year marks 20 years of the Cupra badge, launched back in 1996 with the Ibiza. So how about another Ibiza Cupra R to mark the occasion? Take the 2.0-litre turbo, add the VAQ 'diff', maybe take some weight out and really give the Fiesta something to think about. Make sure it's yellow too.
Watch the onboard here.
SEAT IBIZA CUPRA
Engine: 1,798cc four-cylinder turbo
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 192@4,300-6,200rpm
Torque (lb ft): 236@1,450-4,200rpm
0-62mph: 6.7 seconds
Top speed: 146mph
MPG: 47.1 (NEDC combined)
CO2: 139g/km
Weight: 1,260kg ("in running order with driver")
Price: TBA
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Discussion
I sometimes wonder if the 1.8 petrol unit is the ultimate smoking gun for the VW group. Unless they knew the diesels and over complex petrol units were dodgy, why go back to basics as they have with this?
I like Seats - I drive quite a few VW group cars (making a bit of extra money at the moment delivering cars) and the Seats are just a bit better resolved inside than the chintzy VW's and utterly bewildering Audis. Skoda have lost their internal simplicity as well. Plus, most Seats still have proper handbrakes.
I do a lot of miles and getting into a basic Seat is always a bit of a relief. Unhectic. I suppose I ought to write some reviews of the cars. I do about 2000 miles a week in a pretty divergent set of motors. I'm not a journalist and have no axe to grind.
I like Seats - I drive quite a few VW group cars (making a bit of extra money at the moment delivering cars) and the Seats are just a bit better resolved inside than the chintzy VW's and utterly bewildering Audis. Skoda have lost their internal simplicity as well. Plus, most Seats still have proper handbrakes.
I do a lot of miles and getting into a basic Seat is always a bit of a relief. Unhectic. I suppose I ought to write some reviews of the cars. I do about 2000 miles a week in a pretty divergent set of motors. I'm not a journalist and have no axe to grind.
article said:
Paint it yellow - well, hopefully
Except they're all white, like rep-mobile wannabes, which is a shame because they look quite good. I don't see any red or even black cars.That fake exhaust though... please stop this nonsense, it doesn't even try to look real
A missed opportunity, so it seems.
I don't understand the point of that exhaust. Really weird move by VAG, the old Corsa VXR had a single exit exhaust and it was fantastic.
I'm not sure they get what a hot hatch is supposed to be, lairy, loud and fun. This doesn't seem to tick any of those boxes. The Polo GTI fills the sensible hot hatch class, you would have thought they would bring out the not-so sensible under the Seat brand.
Not to say it isn't a capable car, it looks like it is very capable. But it seems rather dull, which is the problem with a lot of VAG products.
I'm not sure they get what a hot hatch is supposed to be, lairy, loud and fun. This doesn't seem to tick any of those boxes. The Polo GTI fills the sensible hot hatch class, you would have thought they would bring out the not-so sensible under the Seat brand.
Not to say it isn't a capable car, it looks like it is very capable. But it seems rather dull, which is the problem with a lot of VAG products.
Oddly enough I also noticed some exhaust daftness on my commute this morning. A new Mondeo wearing some semi-sporting addenda with a pair of rather striking wide slim exhaust pipes integrated into the bumper sauntered past whilst I was sat in traffic.
At first I thought it looked rather smart, then I noticed the apologetic skinny little actual tailpipe peering out from within the aggressive faux pipe as it moved ahead of me.
It looked ridiculous. Kind of like the Automotive equivalent of crotch stuffing.
Back on topic the review of this SEAT just confirms my uninformed armchair perception of the brand being a maker of also-ran, relatively good value, unoffensive hatchbacks. Nothing to get very excited about, but nothing to dislike either. Just a bit forgetable.
At first I thought it looked rather smart, then I noticed the apologetic skinny little actual tailpipe peering out from within the aggressive faux pipe as it moved ahead of me.
It looked ridiculous. Kind of like the Automotive equivalent of crotch stuffing.
Back on topic the review of this SEAT just confirms my uninformed armchair perception of the brand being a maker of also-ran, relatively good value, unoffensive hatchbacks. Nothing to get very excited about, but nothing to dislike either. Just a bit forgetable.
I note you say its a little too grown up. However i think that a big chunk of the market wants that. There is a lot to be said for a car that is a bit less obvious, easy and practical to drive everyday, but on the odd occasion when the roads allow you can boot it and feel you're not dead yet. I am one of those demographic i think as i have a skoda Fabia VRS with the 1.4 tsi and dsg. a car slated by many, but as an ownership prospect its been amazing, cheap ( 11k for a 10 month pre reg from skoda dealer) cheap to run with 45mpg on average, not put a foot wrong, practical for 4 6ft plus adults, does dump runs, done a few laps of the ring ( well 40 in mine as its rude not to even if you have left the track car at home) i can park it up and forget about it. and even better 99% of th public don;t know what it is and you never have traffic light battles with sales reps ( and even if you do the DSG allows you to rip it off without them knowing what happened.
I am hoping the new Fabia gets the same 1.8 treatment but i personally would love the option of the DSG box as everyday its hands the best. I doubt i would have loved my Fabia so much without the DSG box. On top of that if i ever got bored of it i just take my Type R out for a blast.
love the new ibiza but if the money is that close to the polo you would be mad not to get the Polo Gti with a DSG option tiked.
Fiesta ST is nice but i think for the market they are going after now with these junior hatches most are in their thirties and don't want anything to look at me or obvious like the fiesta ST. plus the Fiesta is really in a different league interior quality wise.
I am hoping the new Fabia gets the same 1.8 treatment but i personally would love the option of the DSG box as everyday its hands the best. I doubt i would have loved my Fabia so much without the DSG box. On top of that if i ever got bored of it i just take my Type R out for a blast.
love the new ibiza but if the money is that close to the polo you would be mad not to get the Polo Gti with a DSG option tiked.
Fiesta ST is nice but i think for the market they are going after now with these junior hatches most are in their thirties and don't want anything to look at me or obvious like the fiesta ST. plus the Fiesta is really in a different league interior quality wise.
Didn't realise the Polo GTI was already 1.8T, Seat always seemed to have the bigger engine in the small cars first (think Ibiza Cupras of old).
I guess the 1.4 Super/Turbo Charged car with it DSG box appealed to a too limited market, not to mention the oil burning issues.
It seem obvious that the Skoda Fabia will follow suit but I wouldn't be surprised if Skoda go back down the TDI route for the VRS.
Also aren't the exhaust tips some EU ruling about the tips not allowed to get too hot hence the exhaust not actually being connected to the tail pipe tips in many cars now - the new Lambos springs to mind?
I guess the 1.4 Super/Turbo Charged car with it DSG box appealed to a too limited market, not to mention the oil burning issues.
It seem obvious that the Skoda Fabia will follow suit but I wouldn't be surprised if Skoda go back down the TDI route for the VRS.
Also aren't the exhaust tips some EU ruling about the tips not allowed to get too hot hence the exhaust not actually being connected to the tail pipe tips in many cars now - the new Lambos springs to mind?
Antj said:
I note you say its a little too grown up. However i think that a big chunk of the market wants that. There is a lot to be said for a car that is a bit less obvious, easy and practical to drive everyday, but on the odd occasion when the roads allow you can boot it and feel you're not dead yet.
I agree, the remark that a junior hot hatch is a car that is "meant to be rambunctious, feisty and boisterous little tykes of cars, begging to be thrashed at every opportunity" is something that sums up cars like Pug 106 Rallyes which were the last of a breed.To me the vast majority of people who will be considering a new Seat will be looking for the top of the range model to have comfort, refinement , gadgets & safety at a lower price than the equivalent Polo, sad really.
I have fond memories of the Ibiza GTI/Cupras which followed my preferred formula of taking a Polo based chassis and sticking Golf GTI running gear in it!!!!
Is it also the case that on new 2014 cars onwards that the EU forces manufactures to include ESC that cannot be fully turned off?
Looks nice and something I would consider if I were in the market for a junior hot hatch. Are they available with 5 doors?
The power and torque figures, whilst not amazing for a 1.8 turbo motor, are more than enough for a small hatchback. I certainly wouldn’t want more.
I also agree with other posters that the majority of people who will buy this as their only car will also want good equipment levels and a decent amount of refinement.
I own a Leon with the same 1.8 engine although detuned to 178bhp and 184 lb ft and I find it smooth and response. Averages 40mpg in mixed driving too. Interestingly the Leon is only around 40kg’s heavier than the Ibiza.
The power and torque figures, whilst not amazing for a 1.8 turbo motor, are more than enough for a small hatchback. I certainly wouldn’t want more.
I also agree with other posters that the majority of people who will buy this as their only car will also want good equipment levels and a decent amount of refinement.
I own a Leon with the same 1.8 engine although detuned to 178bhp and 184 lb ft and I find it smooth and response. Averages 40mpg in mixed driving too. Interestingly the Leon is only around 40kg’s heavier than the Ibiza.
Picked up my Spirit Blue Fiesta ST back in March 14' after deliberating between a Polo GTI, Ibiza Cupra, 208 GTI and some Generic German oil burners of the same price range)
Cast back to autumn/winter 2013 and I really wanted the Polo GTI. It had the looks and the performance on paper. It was a little more pricey than the others I had been looking at and the Cupra interior I wasn't too keen on nor the A-Pillers. Nevertheless went with my old man to have a look at the Polo with the intentions of striking a deal if the figures weren't too crazy. However I was advised by the rather rude salesman at the time (VW Bolton) that the car comes in DSG only which is sacrilegious in my eyes (and other PH'ers seem to agree
)
I then decided to visit my local ford dealer to test drive a 1.0T ecoboost (125) fiesta which was impressive to say the least before thinking of the mountune upgrades!! I then asked the salesman about the molton orange ST in the showroom - at this point he must of realised I was putty in his hands...so much so he took my old man and I round to their prep area where the cars that haven't been PDI'd are stored and showed me a spirit blue and black. It was at that moment my mind was made up...even without test driving.
We went for a test drive and then after 4 weeks backwards and forwards trying to get the right options for the right price I placed an order December 13' to be delivered March 14'
I have waffled enough so far so I am not going to go into detail about how fantastic this car is as there are countless reviews by journo's commending this car. A certain Mr Henry Catchpole ran one as a long termer.
The car is well put together, that might be due to the fact its built in cologne. The ride is firm, after running one for 19months it can get quite tiresome. But the handling is absolutely superb, class leading some might say... so I am more than happy to be an eagle eyed pot hole spotter than have some soft wallowy ride...and those recaro seats are bloomin' excellent hugging you and keeping you in your seat when trying out some lift off oversteer round a corner
Too anyone looking for a hot hatch its a pretty straight forward decision thanks for the ST!!!
Cast back to autumn/winter 2013 and I really wanted the Polo GTI. It had the looks and the performance on paper. It was a little more pricey than the others I had been looking at and the Cupra interior I wasn't too keen on nor the A-Pillers. Nevertheless went with my old man to have a look at the Polo with the intentions of striking a deal if the figures weren't too crazy. However I was advised by the rather rude salesman at the time (VW Bolton) that the car comes in DSG only which is sacrilegious in my eyes (and other PH'ers seem to agree
)I then decided to visit my local ford dealer to test drive a 1.0T ecoboost (125) fiesta which was impressive to say the least before thinking of the mountune upgrades!! I then asked the salesman about the molton orange ST in the showroom - at this point he must of realised I was putty in his hands...so much so he took my old man and I round to their prep area where the cars that haven't been PDI'd are stored and showed me a spirit blue and black. It was at that moment my mind was made up...even without test driving.
We went for a test drive and then after 4 weeks backwards and forwards trying to get the right options for the right price I placed an order December 13' to be delivered March 14'
I have waffled enough so far so I am not going to go into detail about how fantastic this car is as there are countless reviews by journo's commending this car. A certain Mr Henry Catchpole ran one as a long termer.
The car is well put together, that might be due to the fact its built in cologne. The ride is firm, after running one for 19months it can get quite tiresome. But the handling is absolutely superb, class leading some might say... so I am more than happy to be an eagle eyed pot hole spotter than have some soft wallowy ride...and those recaro seats are bloomin' excellent hugging you and keeping you in your seat when trying out some lift off oversteer round a corner
Too anyone looking for a hot hatch its a pretty straight forward decision thanks for the ST!!!
J99kke said:
Too anyone looking for a hot hatch its a pretty straight forward decision thanks for the ST!!!
I've run one for coming up on a year now (Fiesta ST). Have to say I never test drove any alternatives and originally went into the dealership thinking about an Ecoboost Zetec-S but my eye got kinda drawn to the year old Race Red ST on the used car lot. It just hasn't disappointed in any way. The only complaint I have is the extremely firm ride. Otherwise it's got plenty of good tech in it, and there's nothing more to say about the way it drives - it's exceptionally good fun.
I even got it serviced recently and that cost about £220 including a loan car for the day, brake fluid change, and a years free RAC breakdown cover. And nothing has broken on it yet. Just a cracking motor. I've honestly never kept any of my 'daily' cars longer than a year but I can't find any real reason to get rid of this one.
graham22 said:
Also aren't the exhaust tips some EU ruling about the tips not allowed to get too hot hence the exhaust not actually being connected to the tail pipe tips in many cars now - the new Lambos springs to mind?
Can anyone confirm this? I see this on a lot of new cars these days. Little pee-shooter pipes nervously hiding behind their enclosures... DirtyIrish said:
graham22 said:
Also aren't the exhaust tips some EU ruling about the tips not allowed to get too hot hence the exhaust not actually being connected to the tail pipe tips in many cars now - the new Lambos springs to mind?
Can anyone confirm this? I see this on a lot of new cars these days. Little pee-shooter pipes nervously hiding behind their enclosures... Chicane-UK said:
J99kke said:
Too anyone looking for a hot hatch its a pretty straight forward decision thanks for the ST!!!
I've run one for coming up on a year now (Fiesta ST). Have to say I never test drove any alternatives and originally went into the dealership thinking about an Ecoboost Zetec-S but my eye got kinda drawn to the year old Race Red ST on the used car lot. It just hasn't disappointed in any way. The only complaint I have is the extremely firm ride. Otherwise it's got plenty of good tech in it, and there's nothing more to say about the way it drives - it's exceptionally good fun.
I even got it serviced recently and that cost about £220 including a loan car for the day, brake fluid change, and a years free RAC breakdown cover. And nothing has broken on it yet. Just a cracking motor. I've honestly never kept any of my 'daily' cars longer than a year but I can't find any real reason to get rid of this one.
The build quality is probably not up to VW, Audi type standards but, then again, it was a great deal cheaper then any of their equivalent cars so not really fair to compare. I also do not necessarily agree with what the press seem to say about the media system in the Fiesta. Granted, it is not the most intuitive but once you figure out your way around it, everything is there and it all works really well. For example, despite the small screen, the sat nav is a really good system and I'm pleased my car has it. It's certainly much easier than having to stick a separate nav to the screen which generally looks rubbish and needs to be removed in between journeys etc.
No doubt anyone who buys the Ibiza or Polo will find they have a great car but I'm not sure either will provide the smiles per miles that the little Ford can, particularly when you consider how cheaply the Fiesta can be bought or leased for.
graham22 said:
Didn't realise the Polo GTI was already 1.8T, Seat always seemed to have the bigger engine in the small cars first (think Ibiza Cupras of old).
I guess the 1.4 Super/Turbo Charged car with it DSG box appealed to a too limited market, not to mention the oil burning issues.
It seem obvious that the Skoda Fabia will follow suit but I wouldn't be surprised if Skoda go back down the TDI route for the VRS.
Also aren't the exhaust tips some EU ruling about the tips not allowed to get too hot hence the exhaust not actually being connected to the tail pipe tips in many cars now - the new Lambos springs to mind?
Skoda binned all idea of a Fabia VRS a year or so ago and said there won;t be one, even though it would sale and the previous mk2 outsold both the Polo and Ibiza combined,,,,,,shame but like has already been noted on the seat vs VW price front they are already too close and skoda are no longer the cheapest of the three, which is shame as skoda used to be the bargain of the trio but no most facia's cost the same as the equivalent spec polo and end of the day the VW badge is still better for depreciation ( bar the recent storm in tea cup)I guess the 1.4 Super/Turbo Charged car with it DSG box appealed to a too limited market, not to mention the oil burning issues.
It seem obvious that the Skoda Fabia will follow suit but I wouldn't be surprised if Skoda go back down the TDI route for the VRS.
Also aren't the exhaust tips some EU ruling about the tips not allowed to get too hot hence the exhaust not actually being connected to the tail pipe tips in many cars now - the new Lambos springs to mind?
Antj said:
I note you say its a little too grown up. However i think that a big chunk of the market wants that. There is a lot to be said for a car that is a bit less obvious, easy and practical to drive everyday, but on the odd occasion when the roads allow you can boot it and feel you're not dead yet.
I'm not sure how big the chunk of the market is, but count me in. At the moment I do at least two longer Autobahn runs a week, usually when it is dark, so probably a use case irrelevant to most. The Fiesta ST is brilliant, I drove one for a week and that was huge fun. But *for me* it has two main issues. First the damping is pretty extreme and at higher speeds it gets very, very bouncy. Second (I know that sounds silly), no Xenon or LED lights. This is annoying over here as it increases the chances of some *!"§%"# moving into your lane, underestimating the speed of what is approaching.
Real world pricing is also pretty good as SEAT seem to be pretty generous with discounts in the EU. For comparison, a base ST is ~ 16k EUR, the Ibiza 17k, the Polo 18.5k if you shop around. The Ibiza also comes pretty much fully equipped (Xenons, front and rear parking thingys, adaptive damping, heated seats, sat nav...). I don't need all the toys, but there is not much in it compared to the ST after adding a few toys (never mind the Polo).
So for an old fart like me the Ibiza sounds interesting, even if it is a little on the dull side. The alternative is a larger diesel of some sorts but I'm bored with that
.Ecosseven said:
Looks nice and something I would consider if I were in the market for a junior hot hatch. Are they available with 5 doors?
I own a Leon with the same 1.8 engine although detuned to 178bhp and 184 lb ft and I find it smooth and response. Averages 40mpg in mixed driving too. Interestingly the Leon is only around 40kg’s heavier than the Ibiza.
No 5 door version I'm afraid. Would be interesting to have that as an Ibiza ST (or if they put that running gear in the Skoda Rapid). I own a Leon with the same 1.8 engine although detuned to 178bhp and 184 lb ft and I find it smooth and response. Averages 40mpg in mixed driving too. Interestingly the Leon is only around 40kg’s heavier than the Ibiza.
Good to hear you like the engine in the Leon! Bit sad is that the penny pinchers at VAG decided to drop the 250 NM limited gear box in the Leon. So compared to the Ibiza you loose a couple of horses and 70 NM of torque. Probably not a world of difference but I'd looks wise I like the Leon FR more than the Cupra versions.
Not sure how much more the Ibiza's beefier gear box weighs, but the generous equipment level and probably most importantly the old platform the Ibiza is based is on (PQ26 vs MQB) will be the reason they are so close in mass.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff