Will a K series run safely at an angle?

Will a K series run safely at an angle?

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drive2tractors

Original Poster:

488 posts

263 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
Thinking about fitting an alternative engine to my 1979 Lotus Elite whilst I rebuild the original engine. If I found a suitable K series would I be able to run it cranked over at an angle safely subject to sensible sump and oil pump mods?
I know its a random thought but I think the engine might suit the car?
d2t

DVandrews

1,315 posts

282 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
You may have an issue with drainage from the exhaust side of the head, oil will pool around the top of the guides and leach down them. This can be an issue on the Caterham with a lot less extreme installation angle, there are some modifications you can make to improve the drainage at those points on the head but they are not easy to do.

You may also have some pooling of oil in the cam cover above the gasket on the exhaust side, some judiciously placed extra holes should mitigate the problem.g

You will also experience pooling behind the rear crankcase seal where an extra drain hole will be required to prevent leakage from the lip of the seal when the pools oil reaches above the seals lip line.

Dave

Edited by DVandrews on Saturday 28th November 19:36

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
I'm not sure a K series even runs "safely" when upright............ ;-)

DVandrews

1,315 posts

282 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
That would depend on how well prepared it was.

Dave

trickywoo

11,706 posts

229 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
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Max_Torque said:
I'm not sure a K series even runs "safely" when upright............ ;-)
This. I'd think twice about fitting a k series engine to my worst enemy's car. Even if they asked me nicely to do it.

drive2tractors

Original Poster:

488 posts

263 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
DVandrews said:
You may have an issue with drainage from the exhaust side of the head, oil will pool around the top of the guides and leach down them. This can be an issue on the Caterham with a lot less extreme installation angle, there are some modifications you can make to improve the drainage at those points on the head but they are not easy to do.

You may also have some pooling of oil in the cam cover above the gasket on the exhaust side, some judiciously placed extra holes should mitigate the problem.g

You will also experience pooling behind the rear crankcase seal where an extra drain hole will be required to prevent leakage from the lip of the seal when the pools oil reaches above the seals lip line.

Dave

Edited by DVandrews on Saturday 28th November 19:36
Hmm sounds like it may not be ideal. I can't think of any modern (common) engine that runs normally at a slant off the top of my head, that would have all these issues designed out. I need to be able to fit it in the low bonnet line.

voicey

2,453 posts

186 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
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I had a Peugeot 306 GTi6 that had the engine installed at quite an angle - IIRC most of the 306 range had the same installation.

JohnMcL

144 posts

142 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
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If the existing engine is still running, how about getting another. Rebuild that, then swop. That could be less costly than modifying a different design and certainly less complicated.

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
It depends what you think is modern, the K series isn't....
Seems a shame to put the wrong engine in a classic, but Saab, fiat/Lancia both leant to some degree. The Saab is a good one as it's cheap to buy and strong.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
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We had several 306s - although not the GTi so I don't know about that one - & the engine on them isn't cranked over at an angle.

voicey

2,453 posts

186 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
paintman said:
We had several 306s - although not the GTi so I don't know about that one - & the engine on them isn't cranked over at an angle.
I've digged a little and it was the 16v engines that were tilted backwards.

1.8 16v:



2.0 16v:


PhillipM

6,515 posts

188 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
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S2000 engines have a bit of a lean on them, but not to the extent you have there. I don't think I'd run many engines at that angle without some sump and pickup work.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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Having had a few 900 Lotus engines, are you sure the K series would even need to be tilted? it's a lot shorter than a 900.
For the price I'd but a second 900 and rebuild that keeping the old engine in the car while I did so, and no problems matching to the gear box.

drive2tractors

Original Poster:

488 posts

263 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
Berw said:
Having had a few 900 Lotus engines, are you sure the K series would even need to be tilted? it's a lot shorter than a 900.
For the price I'd but a second 900 and rebuild that keeping the old engine in the car while I did so, and no problems matching to the gear box.
Having given it some thought over the weekend I've decided to work with the original engine. I have a problem with cylinder 4. Compression is 160 on 1 2 and 3 but only just 150 on 4. There is always unburnt oil on the plug and low idle speed is impossible to achieve smoothly.
I think I'll pop the head off and have a look in the first instance.
I think you're right: by the time I've engineered a different motor into the car I probably could have fixed the original.
d2t

Pumaracing

2,089 posts

206 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
10 psi difference on one cylinder is not usually much of a concern. More to the point is that all cylinders are now very low. My cranking pressure guide and chart here

https://web.archive.org/web/20110903073621/http://...

would indicate just under 185 psi for a 9.5:1 CR std road engine in perfect condition. Anything below 165 psi would be troubling and 150 psi is knackered.

Total rebuild time with a rebore and new pistons as well as reconditioned head obviously.

As for slanted engines, all of the Peugeot XU 5 and 9 (1580cc and 1905cc) aluminium block engines in both 8v and 16v form were installed at a similar angle to the Lotus one.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
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If you are rebuilding a 900, look at going for the JP Pistons, as an option, and sort out the oil return.
I used to race a 900, had all the recommended mods, S4 block and crank Jp Pistons, Steel Liners, Long Cams, Improved Oil return, early manual belt tensions on the round tooth belt, etc and restricted oil feed to the head. Made huge power but couldn't stop stretched rods and pistons touching the head, the head is just so much better than the bottom end on these engines they will rev until the bottom lets go.
Mate of mine just put a 2.2 Vitec into an early Elite, stunning conversion.
I eventually sold my engine and went SR20. I have loads of info in PDF on the 900 if you are interested PM me and I'll sort out some files. The best source of info on these engines in The Jensen Healy Club in LA, they sell parts much cheaper than any one else even with the postage. (Pistons, Belts, Gaskets, bearings, etc)

drive2tractors

Original Poster:

488 posts

263 months

Thursday 3rd December 2015
quotequote all
Berw said:
If you are rebuilding a 900, look at going for the JP Pistons, as an option, and sort out the oil return.
I used to race a 900, had all the recommended mods, S4 block and crank Jp Pistons, Steel Liners, Long Cams, Improved Oil return, early manual belt tensions on the round tooth belt, etc and restricted oil feed to the head. Made huge power but couldn't stop stretched rods and pistons touching the head, the head is just so much better than the bottom end on these engines they will rev until the bottom lets go.
Mate of mine just put a 2.2 Vitec into an early Elite, stunning conversion.
I eventually sold my engine and went SR20. I have loads of info in PDF on the 900 if you are interested PM me and I'll sort out some files. The best source of info on these engines in The Jensen Healy Club in LA, they sell parts much cheaper than any one else even with the postage. (Pistons, Belts, Gaskets, bearings, etc)
Great info, thanks. PM sent.
d2t