Are crap track cars really fun?
Discussion
i think ANY car on track would be fun. a few years back we bought a bog standard BMW 328i for £410 and took it on a trackday - was hilarious, that thing would dance through the bends on old 205-section rubber, and lean through the corners like a boat. And then boil the brake fluid. But was an absolute blast. You just cant hoon a roadcar like you can a track car, nothing else like it.
And that same bmw 328i with simple brake pads, brake fluid, lowering springs and decent tyres is a real machine round most tracks.
Define 'crap' obviously a car that will barely do 60mph will be a bit tiresome, but as long as you either buy something with a reasonably sized engine, or a car that can be made so light that a mediocre engine doesnt matter, you'll have a blast.
And that same bmw 328i with simple brake pads, brake fluid, lowering springs and decent tyres is a real machine round most tracks.
Define 'crap' obviously a car that will barely do 60mph will be a bit tiresome, but as long as you either buy something with a reasonably sized engine, or a car that can be made so light that a mediocre engine doesnt matter, you'll have a blast.
Crap is a relative term. I've had a truckload of fun on track in one of the cheapest MX5s I could find, on budget road tyres. Road tyre grip levels and light weight meant there was never a hint of brake fade (great pedal feel from that car too actually), a bit of body roll from tired standard suspension but fantastic balance, slow up the straights but a lot of fun harrassing faster machinery through the corners.
After 4-5 hard laps in a row the tyres would get a bit melty and turn it into quite a drift machine too...
After 4-5 hard laps in a row the tyres would get a bit melty and turn it into quite a drift machine too...
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 30th November 09:30
I went to Mallory. My mate took us out in his Caterham & it was fast & exciting.
I took him out in my '96 Saab convertible with the LingLong tyres & sensonic gearbox- he wasn't keen.
The tyres squealed for the entire lap, the car slid from surprisingly low speed, body roll was excessive. By the time we'd done a few laps he was grinning from ear to ear despite it being half the speed of his Caterham.
So yes, crappy cars can be a lot of fun.
I took him out in my '96 Saab convertible with the LingLong tyres & sensonic gearbox- he wasn't keen.
The tyres squealed for the entire lap, the car slid from surprisingly low speed, body roll was excessive. By the time we'd done a few laps he was grinning from ear to ear despite it being half the speed of his Caterham.
So yes, crappy cars can be a lot of fun.
Ask yourself this:
Who do so many people who start with an expensive and powerful sports car that they track - migrate after getting the 'trackday bug' to a cheaper shed?
Its much more fun and less stressful to try finding the limit in a capable chassis that can easily handle the power available, than it is to be constantly trying not to cross that limit too far everywhere in an overpowered compromise car that you will need for commuting to work tomorrow.
Good suspension, new bushes, race pads and a geometry set up can be had new for less than £1000 for most popular cars.
Who do so many people who start with an expensive and powerful sports car that they track - migrate after getting the 'trackday bug' to a cheaper shed?
Its much more fun and less stressful to try finding the limit in a capable chassis that can easily handle the power available, than it is to be constantly trying not to cross that limit too far everywhere in an overpowered compromise car that you will need for commuting to work tomorrow.
Good suspension, new bushes, race pads and a geometry set up can be had new for less than £1000 for most popular cars.
I think that the fun comes from driving any car at its limits. I have seen guys with Citroex AXs with huge grins all day.
So my guess would be that only a car with a super chassis and no power would not be much fun. Can't think of a example though. More power and a rubbishy chassis would be a hoot.
So my guess would be that only a car with a super chassis and no power would not be much fun. Can't think of a example though. More power and a rubbishy chassis would be a hoot.
I was chatting to a guy with a Supercharged TVR Cerbera and it rained on a TD so he went in his son's Rover 216 and they had a brilliant time apparently, right up until the brakes caught fire. But I do wonder if I would just think 'god this is s
t'. Perhaps I need a slightly less st one
t'. Perhaps I need a slightly less st one Even a low powered "chap" car can be fun. I used to have a 55bhp mk3 polo as a trackday car. Started off just with lowering springs and uprated front disc/pads on the first trackday. Had around 100bhp and weighed 720kg once it was finished, still not fast but I wasn't the slowest there
Yes, absolutely.
I set myself a budget of £1k to build an MX-5 track hack - it's now done 5 track days, about 300L of fuel, a set of brake pads and an oil / filter change. Other than that, I haven't lifted a spanner to it.
Half of the time it's been sideways, and it's been a hell of a lot of fun. Moreso than the 250bhp Westfield I just got rid of, in fact. The way you can let anyone jump in the driver's seat and redline it in every gear without worry is amazing. Everyone who's driven it (10 people plus myself) agrees it's probably the most fun they've ever had on track. I highly recommend it!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=munte...
I set myself a budget of £1k to build an MX-5 track hack - it's now done 5 track days, about 300L of fuel, a set of brake pads and an oil / filter change. Other than that, I haven't lifted a spanner to it.
Half of the time it's been sideways, and it's been a hell of a lot of fun. Moreso than the 250bhp Westfield I just got rid of, in fact. The way you can let anyone jump in the driver's seat and redline it in every gear without worry is amazing. Everyone who's driven it (10 people plus myself) agrees it's probably the most fun they've ever had on track. I highly recommend it!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=munte...
Edited by AdamR172 on Monday 30th November 16:18
Rovinghawk said:
I went to Mallory. My mate took us out in his Caterham & it was fast & exciting.
I took him out in my '96 Saab convertible with the LingLong tyres & sensonic gearbox- he wasn't keen.
The tyres squealed for the entire lap, the car slid from surprisingly low speed, body roll was excessive. By the time we'd done a few laps he was grinning from ear to ear despite it being half the speed of his Caterham.
So yes, crappy cars can be a lot of fun.
Wow, that really is a crap car for track! 90s Saab convertibles were anything but stiff!I took him out in my '96 Saab convertible with the LingLong tyres & sensonic gearbox- he wasn't keen.
The tyres squealed for the entire lap, the car slid from surprisingly low speed, body roll was excessive. By the time we'd done a few laps he was grinning from ear to ear despite it being half the speed of his Caterham.
So yes, crappy cars can be a lot of fun.
How's the sensonic doing? I had one of the same vintage and the motorised 'box let me down too many times.
CABC said:
Wow, that really is a crap car for track! 90s Saab convertibles were anything but stiff!
Uprated ARB transforms it into something average. Add a manual boost controller & decent dump valve & it can be pretty fast. Grins a-plenty.CABC said:
How's the sensonic doing? I had one of the same vintage and the motorised 'box let me down too many times.
A chav went into the side of it- the saxo disntegrated, the Saab drove away. Chav's dad bought the Saab from me to save an insurance claim.AdamR172 said:
Yes, absolutely.
I set myself a budget of £1k to build an MX-5 track hack - it's now done 5 track days, about 300L of fuel, a set of brake pads and an oil / filter change. Other than that, I haven't lifted a spanner to it.
Half of the time it's been sideways, and it's been a hell of a lot of fun. Moreso than the 250bhp Westfield I just got rid of, in fact. The way you can let anyone jump in the driver's seat and redline it in every gear without worry is amazing. Everyone who's driven it (10 people plus myself) agrees it's probably the most fun they've ever had on track. I highly recommend it!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=munte...
It seems to be missing most of its interior, not to mention its windscreen!I set myself a budget of £1k to build an MX-5 track hack - it's now done 5 track days, about 300L of fuel, a set of brake pads and an oil / filter change. Other than that, I haven't lifted a spanner to it.
Half of the time it's been sideways, and it's been a hell of a lot of fun. Moreso than the 250bhp Westfield I just got rid of, in fact. The way you can let anyone jump in the driver's seat and redline it in every gear without worry is amazing. Everyone who's driven it (10 people plus myself) agrees it's probably the most fun they've ever had on track. I highly recommend it!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=munte...
Edited by AdamR172 on Monday 30th November 16:18
The answer to this is guarded though because 'crap' is relative. It is unlikely that you would enjoy tracking an unmodified 80s Lada or even a lardy 90s Golf with a base engine for example, but if you mean a cheap but decent car without a lot of horsepower or weight then certainly. MX5s, E30 and E36 BMWs, Clio 172s or 182s and similar cars car be great fun. However there is another caveat - for optimal enjoyment in something like that you are better doing the kind of days that attract similar cars. If you are out playing with a circuit full of racing cars (be they Caterhams, Porsche Cup, Ferrari Challenge, VLN or even mid range club racing machinery) there is a risk that the novelty could wear off quickly (especially if you don't have much track experience). Conversely, playing with a field of similar bargain priced toys is excellent.
The crappier the better considering the amount of high tech stuff going on them nowadays, the fun starts without feeling under pressure. 
Apart from from worrying that you might be a mobile chicane but that soon wears off after the first few laps if you keep looking in your mirrors and be a good slowcoach.
And it makes good conversation around the pits. If you think your car might not be fun here's my Yaris overtaking some new chap who was just learning the ropes in 2012.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlFNsTELHKA
Thats an automatic diesel 1.4 Yaris. Has any car been less than that on a track day? the 2CV is better balanced
It was the only car I ever overtook around Brands, so still giving me entertainment. How cheap fun is that? That car is still going strong 30 000 miles later, although I did have to replace the discs and pads after 3 sessions and 150 laps of Brands that year. Costs me £180 or so. That's the other thing about crap cars .. low overheads. It's now done 70 000 miles on a Superchips conversion and still polluting strongly. VW? Fecking amateurs.
You know how crap it is? The bloke who did the noise reading at Brands didn't even bother, he just stuck the "Noise pass" sticker on. Git.
The biggest overhead is a crash of course. If you have a crap car then then you don't care. Last one I went to at brands I was in my MX5 with turbo but only took it 90%. Went faster but then not as much fun as worried about doing this which someone else did later in the day
So cheap, rather than crap, cars are actually better. No pressure, people like to talk, you show the bigger boys up if you are really skilled / less cared.
What's not to like ? Can I say that this year, it seems to have gone out of fashion.....
The great thing about having a crap car is you have such a low starting point you end up deciding removing the air con and putting the battery in the boot will have an effect. So will fitting roll bars just to one end. So end up learning something
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
Which is good in itself, as God said in John 16:9 " The meek shall polish a turd and inherit the earth owned by Jonathan Palmer".
The main thing about having a crap car is you will learn is there is always a faster car than you and there is always a faster driver. But if you learn that then you did a wise choice pretending to be sick from work and then doing a track day on the fly, then you will have become a man my son.
To quote Kipling. Rudyard, not the one who made exceedingly good pies. Exceedingly good anything here would be out of context.
Go forth and spend thous't wad of (very small) cash and say, " fk you, yee merry knights of Radicalism, I shall verily piss all my coolant just going into Copse and upset all ye R888's ...."
"So there"
And you will ring your wife up and she will say
" Verrily, I will come and pick you up in the Micra, even though it is our 25th Anniversary"
And you will say " Thanks so much. The Micra? Can you park somewhere near the entrance and I'll walk to you? "
So endeth the lesson of cheap track day car malarkies.
AMEN and cars.
Apart from from worrying that you might be a mobile chicane but that soon wears off after the first few laps if you keep looking in your mirrors and be a good slowcoach. And it makes good conversation around the pits. If you think your car might not be fun here's my Yaris overtaking some new chap who was just learning the ropes in 2012.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlFNsTELHKA
Thats an automatic diesel 1.4 Yaris. Has any car been less than that on a track day? the 2CV is better balanced
It was the only car I ever overtook around Brands, so still giving me entertainment. How cheap fun is that? That car is still going strong 30 000 miles later, although I did have to replace the discs and pads after 3 sessions and 150 laps of Brands that year. Costs me £180 or so. That's the other thing about crap cars .. low overheads. It's now done 70 000 miles on a Superchips conversion and still polluting strongly. VW? Fecking amateurs.
You know how crap it is? The bloke who did the noise reading at Brands didn't even bother, he just stuck the "Noise pass" sticker on. Git.
The biggest overhead is a crash of course. If you have a crap car then then you don't care. Last one I went to at brands I was in my MX5 with turbo but only took it 90%. Went faster but then not as much fun as worried about doing this which someone else did later in the day
So cheap, rather than crap
, cars are actually better. No pressure, people like to talk, you show the bigger boys up if you are really skilled / less cared.What's not to like ? Can I say that this year, it seems to have gone out of fashion.....
The great thing about having a crap car is you have such a low starting point you end up deciding removing the air con and putting the battery in the boot will have an effect. So will fitting roll bars just to one end. So end up learning something
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
Which is good in itself, as God said in John 16:9 " The meek shall polish a turd and inherit the earth owned by Jonathan Palmer".
The main thing about having a crap car is you will learn is there is always a faster car than you and there is always a faster driver. But if you learn that then you did a wise choice pretending to be sick from work and then doing a track day on the fly, then you will have become a man my son.
To quote Kipling. Rudyard, not the one who made exceedingly good pies. Exceedingly good anything here would be out of context.
Go forth and spend thous't wad of (very small) cash and say, " f
k you, yee merry knights of Radicalism, I shall verily piss all my coolant just going into Copse and upset all ye R888's ....""So there"
And you will ring your wife up and she will say
" Verrily, I will come and pick you up in the Micra, even though it is our 25th Anniversary"
And you will say " Thanks so much. The Micra? Can you park somewhere near the entrance and I'll walk to you? "
So endeth the lesson of cheap track day car malarkies.
AMEN and cars.
Edited by Gandahar on Tuesday 1st December 18:39
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