New Fiesta is a bit scary in slippery and wet conditions
Discussion
Sounds like he doesn't know how to drive very well.
It's no surprise something with hard suspension will feel edgy in the wet if driven harshly. It's the compromise you make for having something which grips hard and doesn't roll in the dry.
You would likely need variable damping and modes to overcome this, which is what you get on higher priced cars.
It's no surprise something with hard suspension will feel edgy in the wet if driven harshly. It's the compromise you make for having something which grips hard and doesn't roll in the dry.
You would likely need variable damping and modes to overcome this, which is what you get on higher priced cars.
The Wife has a 15 plate Zetec S. It handles great in the dry, but I do find that you will find the limits of the front tyres in the wet. However, no more so than in any other front wheel drive small hatchback. I imagine if that takes you by surprise and you lift of suddenly then you may provoke a bit of oversteer, but it's never happened to me.
Make sure it's not running ditch-finder tyres and the pressures are correct, then perhaps get a wheel alignment check done. If all is correct, then it's probably the driver who needs to adjust driving style.
As for the throttle delay, I've found the 1.0 Ecoboost engine is not the last word in throttle sharpness, but it doesn't take much getting used to.
Make sure it's not running ditch-finder tyres and the pressures are correct, then perhaps get a wheel alignment check done. If all is correct, then it's probably the driver who needs to adjust driving style.
As for the throttle delay, I've found the 1.0 Ecoboost engine is not the last word in throttle sharpness, but it doesn't take much getting used to.
If his last car had soft suspension and understeered, no doubt it was hiding a myriad of flaws in his driving. When people say that a car handles well, they mean that it's responsive and adjustable, which in turn means it'll feel more alive in your hands, and if those hands are clumsy then that's going to result in much instability than in a more dopey car with a slow witted chassis. Rest assured that if he's finding the Fiesta unstable if you put him in an Elise he'd probably crash within minutes! He needs to learn what de-stabilises a car and drive accordingly without sudden movements, periods of coasting etc. This will pay dividends in his confidence and safety, especially if he ever wants to drive anything with decent performance. Either that or he should buy an Audi 
The lag on the throttle is normal for a modern drive by wire throttle car and yes, it does upset a car's balance and it's obviously more noticeable in a car with a more responsive chassis. See this thread for more information: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The lag on the throttle is normal for a modern drive by wire throttle car and yes, it does upset a car's balance and it's obviously more noticeable in a car with a more responsive chassis. See this thread for more information: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 30th November 16:02
iloveboost said:
He says he has to remember every significant bump or camber when driving briskly.
At the risk of sounding harsh, that's something your friend should do in anything from a Twizzy to a Merc S Class.iloveboost said:
When it's slippery or wet he says it will understeer far more quickly than he's used to, and then sometimes lift off oversteer.
Short wheelbase cars will have quirks that will be more obvious if you're aggressive with how you drive. ESP and chassis set up don't break the laws of physics.It's easy to stick the boot in when no one can see you... so I'll suggest something different instead. How about your friend does an observed drive with his local IAM group, and see what they say? Better the opinion of one good person who can see you than two dozen PHers who can't.
iloveboost said:
A friend went out for a brisk drive in slippery conditions, and he feels the new Fiesta is a bit scary. The car has ESP, but it allows slides. It bounces around a lot over bumps, jolts from side to side over cambers and pitches all over the place. He says he has to remember every significant bump or camber when driving briskly, and generally he drives more slowly. The softer, longer wheelbase hatchback he had before, was far better over bad tarmac. It also felt safer and smoother.
He told me when he moves the throttle, there's a noticeable delay in response. This sometimes screws the balance of the car up, and it's annoying. Also the electric power steering is poorer in terms of feedback, but it does have feel.
When it's slippery or wet he says it will understeer far more quickly than he's used to, and then sometimes lift off oversteer. The corner speeds in general are lower than his previous car, and it's running standard tyres with standard pressures. He expected more from the car everyone says is the best handling modern supermini. It's ironic, as his previous car was sometimes criticised for having excessive understeer and soft suspension. My questions is are some of these problems being caused by the driver, or the car?
Thanks.
The answer to your question is that the problem is caused by the water on the road. I'm sorry but driving in the wet you just cannot expect good grip. He told me when he moves the throttle, there's a noticeable delay in response. This sometimes screws the balance of the car up, and it's annoying. Also the electric power steering is poorer in terms of feedback, but it does have feel.
When it's slippery or wet he says it will understeer far more quickly than he's used to, and then sometimes lift off oversteer. The corner speeds in general are lower than his previous car, and it's running standard tyres with standard pressures. He expected more from the car everyone says is the best handling modern supermini. It's ironic, as his previous car was sometimes criticised for having excessive understeer and soft suspension. My questions is are some of these problems being caused by the driver, or the car?
Thanks.
Also the standard tyres are rubbish in the wet.
Blimey tell your mate to slow down in the wet! Sounds like hes canning it like he would in the dry and wondering why the laws of physics are coming into play!
This time of year the reads are extra greasy and im sure the lower temps affect tyres as well
P.S try and avoid where I live, I dont fancy a head on with a fiesta
This time of year the reads are extra greasy and im sure the lower temps affect tyres as well
P.S try and avoid where I live, I dont fancy a head on with a fiesta
iloveboost said:
It bounces around a lot over bumps, jolts from side to side over cambers and pitches all over the place.
He's certainly right about that. Same can be said of other firmly sprung hatches with low profile tyres though.Think road bike vs mountain bike on badly surfaced roads.
Been driving my mum's 14 plate, 1.25 Zetec 3 door about for the last few days as my car's getting work done.
I've found it to be a decent car, good handling and the 1.25 loves to rev. Bit gutless down low if i get the gear wrong.
It's on the standard Conti tyres and has only 5,679 miles so they are pretty fresh.
It's been terrible weather with lots of heavy rain, standing water etc. Car has had no issues with it.
I would suggest your friend learns to drive and gets better tyres fitted.
I've found it to be a decent car, good handling and the 1.25 loves to rev. Bit gutless down low if i get the gear wrong.
It's on the standard Conti tyres and has only 5,679 miles so they are pretty fresh.
It's been terrible weather with lots of heavy rain, standing water etc. Car has had no issues with it.
I would suggest your friend learns to drive and gets better tyres fitted.
Buff Mchugelarge said:
I was amazed how easily modern over spring hatch backs will lift off oversteer in the wet. OP, tell your friend to try a corsa. It'll make him thankful he has a fiesta 
It's an unintended consequence of all this 'high driving position' b
ks that affects so many modern cars. st cornering performance and handling from the high CofG, but yes, you can pitch them into oversteer quite easily. The Corsa is indeed a right hoot! The only dodgy thing is that most modern hatchbacks have about a second's delay on coming on and off the throttle, which makes controlling oversteer a bit err.. interesting!RobM77 said:
Buff Mchugelarge said:
I was amazed how easily modern over spring hatch backs will lift off oversteer in the wet. OP, tell your friend to try a corsa. It'll make him thankful he has a fiesta
It's an unintended consequence of all this 'high driving position' bks that affects so many modern cars. st cornering performance and handling from the high CofG, but yes, you can pitch them into oversteer quite easily. The Corsa is indeed a right hoot! The only dodgy thing is that most modern hatchbacks have about a second's delay on coming on and off the throttle, which makes controlling oversteer a bit err.. interesting!Couldn't agree more, especially the throttle response (lack thereof) it's infuriating.
Also couple the high up driving position with super stiff 'Sports' everything and I'm surprised the hedgerows aren't littered with family hatchbacks!
Buff Mchugelarge said:
RobM77 said:
Buff Mchugelarge said:
I was amazed how easily modern over spring hatch backs will lift off oversteer in the wet. OP, tell your friend to try a corsa. It'll make him thankful he has a fiesta
It's an unintended consequence of all this 'high driving position' bks that affects so many modern cars. st cornering performance and handling from the high CofG, but yes, you can pitch them into oversteer quite easily. The Corsa is indeed a right hoot! The only dodgy thing is that most modern hatchbacks have about a second's delay on coming on and off the throttle, which makes controlling oversteer a bit err.. interesting!Couldn't agree more, especially the throttle response (lack thereof) it's infuriating.
Also couple the high up driving position with super stiff 'Sports' everything and I'm surprised the hedgerows aren't littered with family hatchbacks!
The old mk5 Fiesta was also known for being abit excited at the rear, I never found when driving to the conditions it was anything other than superb with it's go-cart handing setup, I even had the much hated P6000's on it! Suggest you friend slows down abit and stops relying on computers to keep him straight and true...
iloveboost said:
A friend went out for a brisk drive in slippery conditions, and he feels the new Fiesta is a bit scary. The car has ESP, but it allows slides. It bounces around a lot over bumps, jolts from side to side over cambers and pitches all over the place. He says he has to remember every significant bump or camber when driving briskly, and generally he drives more slowly. The softer, longer wheelbase hatchback he had before, was far better over bad tarmac. It also felt safer and smoother.
He told me when he moves the throttle, there's a noticeable delay in response. This sometimes screws the balance of the car up, and it's annoying. Also the electric power steering is poorer in terms of feedback, but it does have feel.
When it's slippery or wet he says it will understeer far more quickly than he's used to, and then sometimes lift off oversteer. The corner speeds in general are lower than his previous car, and it's running standard tyres with standard pressures. He expected more from the car everyone says is the best handling modern supermini. It's ironic, as his previous car was sometimes criticised for having excessive understeer and soft suspension. My questions is are some of these problems being caused by the driver, or the car?
Thanks.
In contrast to what some posters have written, that set of observations don't sound like the comments of a ham fisted moron to me. I've never driven a fiesta so I can't advise. You say he went for "a drive". He probably just needs to learn the car.He told me when he moves the throttle, there's a noticeable delay in response. This sometimes screws the balance of the car up, and it's annoying. Also the electric power steering is poorer in terms of feedback, but it does have feel.
When it's slippery or wet he says it will understeer far more quickly than he's used to, and then sometimes lift off oversteer. The corner speeds in general are lower than his previous car, and it's running standard tyres with standard pressures. He expected more from the car everyone says is the best handling modern supermini. It's ironic, as his previous car was sometimes criticised for having excessive understeer and soft suspension. My questions is are some of these problems being caused by the driver, or the car?
Thanks.
To be fair if we're talking about the ST then the Bridgestones aren't the best in the wet. When I first got the ST I was used to driving a RWD BMW 330d and an old Astra and didn't think anything of lifting off in a FWD car as I was used to driving something slow and not as stiffly sprung. Little bit of lift off oversteer and I knew the limit and reminded myself that I'm not driving an 88bhp Astra that hides bad driving and doesn't really warrant anything form of enthusiastic driving (my other car at the time).
It's a little bit the car, but mostly about driving to the conditions. It's the first quick FWD car I've had, but you can still get yourself into trouble at slow speeds if you're not careful due to the setup.
It's a little bit the car, but mostly about driving to the conditions. It's the first quick FWD car I've had, but you can still get yourself into trouble at slow speeds if you're not careful due to the setup.
RobM77 said:
The simple explanation is that people drive extremely slowly nowadays. They might give their car the odd squirt of throttle on a straight road once every couple of years, and get it up to oo.. 3,000rpm before changing up and backing off, but other than those bi-annual hooligan antics, most people tootle round at milkfloat speeds, or at least they do round here!
Probably because the ride/suspension is often so hard, on a shopping car or a big car, that they are being bounced around and jarred about a lot.Quite a few people give their cars a squirt of low rpm quite frequently, but then brake sharply before every (slightly potential) hazard, let alone a bend.
Because modern cars do have decent low-rpm grunt, and are quite forgiving of ham-fisted driving -until it snaps back- many people never appear to learn about maintaining momentum.
ps. Some tyres are very good in the wet, many are not. In the UK, the former are a good idea
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff