RE: Toyota GT86: PH Fleet
Sunday 6th December 2015
I've been dying to take the GT86 on track properly since getting a brief taste at Silverstone a couple of months back. So when a team outing to Brands Hatch was organised, my helmet and tyre pressure gauge were definitely ready before anyone else's. Time to give the car the track time it really deserves...
They knew we were coming...Then it rained. Bother. Not usually a huge problem, particularly given the track day continued, but very far from ideal for this GT86. The first issue being that, because you're no longer flat out, it can then feel a bit sluggish again. Ah, you're thinking, but that means it must be brilliant for a few sneaky powerslides then. Well yes, so did I. The marshals can't spot a couple of small ones, right? But it turns out when the Yokohama Decibel E70s let go in the wet, grip falls of a cliff. Under power out of Druids it felt fine but the occasional jink into Paddock Hill (!) and some big moments at Clearways really undermined confidence. It says something of how wayward it occasionally felt that I didn't even receive a 'no powersliding' sign; nope, instead I was shown the 'steady' board. Now I'm no sideways hero but that was something of a surprise. Anyone else ever seen that?
Steady, steady...A bit of virtual tyre shopping reveals a Decibel E70 can be purchased in this car's 205/55 R16 size for £48. Doesn't sound like much, does it? That's because it isn't. For reference, a Continental Sport Contact 2 would be £72, the Dunlop BluResponse Dan has on his Eunos would be £57 and a Bridgestone Potenza £78. Perhaps trying the GT86 on some more expensive tyres would be a worthwhile experiment, as for now it feels a little like a runner in cheap trainers; the natural ability is there, and what makes contact with the floor kind of looks the same, but it simply isn't as good. Any advice or experience PHers have here would be welcomed!
Can we have it fully dry next time please?Actually I will quickly, because on a journey back home last weekend I wanted to see how many miles per gallon could be squeezed out of the 2.0-litre flat-four. Limiting myself to 3,000rpm (or so) for the 110 miles of North Circular, M11, A120 and A12 back to Ipswich, the figure was... 39mpg. Good, but easily improvable given there was more traffic than expected and I was carrying some luggage. How far over 40mpg is achievable? Owners help required again please!
Toyota GT86: PH Fleet
From track day hooning to motorway eco drives, it's been another busy month for the '86!
They knew we were coming...
It was a lack of wet weather progression that many have highlighted with the Michelin Primacy tyre also used on GT86s. It's a shame because, at those moments when I felt on top of the car, the chassis balance and response seemed superb. I just didn't really know enough about when those moments of drift king impersonation were coming.
Steady, steady...
While we're on the less positive news, GY15 VFZ has also suffered some parking damage recently. It wasn't me, honest! Toyota is aware and we'll hope to have it sorted soon.
Back to the good news. I still love the little GT86, iffy tyres notwithstanding. We're through 7,000 miles now and everything feels nicely bedded in and just, well, proper. Whatever I've been driving, it remains deeply satisfying to get into the Toyota again and appreciate how well sited and weighted everything that's most vital to the driver is. This month that was highlighted by a drive in a 2005 Honda NSX - full Hero story to follow - which, while tremendously exciting, did make you sit rather high with a steering wheel too low. I won't mention anything about engines here...
Can we have it fully dry next time please?
As for the next few weeks, it might be a quiet one with the Christmas break and a few other commitments. But we do really need to sort a comparison with an AE86 soon. One to welcome in 2016!
Look for used Toyota GT86 in the classifieds!
FACT SHEET
Car: 2015 Toyota GT86 Primo
Run by: Matt
On fleet since: July 2015
Mileage: 7,036
List price new: £22,495 (and £22,495 as tested! List price £22,700, GT86 Primo currently available with £205 dealer discount 'when ordered and proposed for finance between 01/10/15 and 17/12/2015)
Last month at a glance: Sideways on circuit and hypermiling on the motorway
Previous reports:
Press car without a single option? Welcome the GT86 Primo!
Three thousand miles in a month gets the 86 run in...
A less exciting month for the GT86 but it's still great!
Fun in the sun with the GT86
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Photos: Tim Brown
Discussion
Not sampled the Decibel's but sounds like they have similar characteristics to the Primacy's. Reasonable in the dry, but just awful in the cold / wet, very snappy and unpredictable.
I will be getting rid of them soon, not too sure what to replace them with though. Tempted by the CS5 but they dont stand up too well on track.
I will be getting rid of them soon, not too sure what to replace them with though. Tempted by the CS5 but they dont stand up too well on track.
The Michelins are pretty terrifying in the wet, it has to be said. It does make things a bit snappy, but nowhere near as snappy as my old MX5. At least, it feels more controllable. Still far from ideal.
I usually travel at a "Brisk" pace on motorways, still get 34-36mpg with ease. I imagine if I really tried topping 40 wouldn't be impossible.
I usually travel at a "Brisk" pace on motorways, still get 34-36mpg with ease. I imagine if I really tried topping 40 wouldn't be impossible.
adriman said:
I will be getting rid of them soon, not too sure what to replace them with though. Tempted by the CS5 but they dont stand up too well on track.
This car is too beautifully balanced to be compromised by the same tyres for road and track. CS5 a good call for the road, get a second set of (light) wheels for track. Personally i wouldn't go for wider tyres, just better rubber and enjoy the playfulness.86 Primacies snappy in the wet? Not compared to an S2000, it isn't. If you drive with everything turned off, it gives plenty of warning when the impending big slide's about to start.
Almost as bizarre as the too-low steering wheel in an NSX comment - you do know it's height-and-reach adjustable? Unless it's the 'flying down the road' illusion, if you are too used to modern rubbish with no windows; even the 86 feels a bit high-waisted and squitty-windowed after the NSX.
Almost as bizarre as the too-low steering wheel in an NSX comment - you do know it's height-and-reach adjustable? Unless it's the 'flying down the road' illusion, if you are too used to modern rubbish with no windows; even the 86 feels a bit high-waisted and squitty-windowed after the NSX.
V8 FOU said:
This "lack of power2 thing for the GT86 is a bit repetative.
Does anyone criticise the E30 for its lack of power? No.
S'funny how it has near enough the same power and weight as the GT86.
Time for a shootout?
The E30 is pretty pokey still for what is a 25 year old car. http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1765-4069.htmDoes anyone criticise the E30 for its lack of power? No.
S'funny how it has near enough the same power and weight as the GT86.
Time for a shootout?
The sole reason I wouldn't spend my cash on a GT86 is the lack of power.
V8 FOU said:
This "lack of power2 thing for the GT86 is a bit repetative.
Does anyone criticise the E30 for its lack of power? No.
S'funny how it has near enough the same power and weight as the GT86.
Time for a shootout?
It has been done Does anyone criticise the E30 for its lack of power? No.
S'funny how it has near enough the same power and weight as the GT86.
Time for a shootout?
http://youtu.be/X3_nYbojfow
Sorry to be repetitive but I swapped the E70s off after 3K. The sidewalls just gave up in the dry and I scared myself a few times in the wet. The car has had Bridgestone Adrenalins for 22K. I would not say the Bridgestones are the best wet tyre I have sampled (They also do not like the cold).
I know that testing modified cars is not really useful but put an exhaust on it. You just do not notice the hole in the torque curve. Even on the stickier Bridgestones the torque can adjust the rear in third gear around town. Just so much more civilised than needing to go to 2nd to play.
Best fuel consumption matches your experience. It is always good for me, almost all country driving.
I know that testing modified cars is not really useful but put an exhaust on it. You just do not notice the hole in the torque curve. Even on the stickier Bridgestones the torque can adjust the rear in third gear around town. Just so much more civilised than needing to go to 2nd to play.
Best fuel consumption matches your experience. It is always good for me, almost all country driving.
I always found the Primacies a little unsteady in the cold and wet. I now have a full set of Goodyear F1AS2 and the car feels much more stable now, but still progressive and playful when required.
When the Goodyears need replacing I was going to try the Continental SC5, as if there's one criticism about the Goodyear it's that they can feel a little soft; want to see if the Continentals are a little sharper.
When the Goodyears need replacing I was going to try the Continental SC5, as if there's one criticism about the Goodyear it's that they can feel a little soft; want to see if the Continentals are a little sharper.
Primacy's let go at 40 MPH accelerating on a straight damp road in 3rd. Have to say, they caught me out.
They are fine for sliding about, although you often get more angle than you order.
I have Nokian WRA3 winters on the car and the car feels softer, smoother and far more progressive on them.
They are fine for sliding about, although you often get more angle than you order.
I have Nokian WRA3 winters on the car and the car feels softer, smoother and far more progressive on them.
I'm sat here pondering what tyres are on my BRZ, I guess they are the same as what's on the GT86. That said I've never had an issue with the car in the wet or greasy conditions. The only time it looses traction is when I provoke it.
The car is one year old today, just over 10k miles and iirc it is averaging 36mpg (I've not reset the computer since I picked it up new)
The car is one year old today, just over 10k miles and iirc it is averaging 36mpg (I've not reset the computer since I picked it up new)
Best economy I ever got out of mine was on the run between Houston and San Antonio and the Texas Hill Country. Just about 36 or 37 mpg (English not American). More typically, in a mix of driving conditions, I got around 28mpg.
Thrashing it on deserted country back roads, and on a rapid trip between Houston and Corpus Christi, it was around 24 mpg.
The standard Michelins were fairly scary in the wet, but I never had any really serious "moments".
Ride on crappy Houston roads was bloody awful. The lack of ground clearance makes car park ramps etc tricky if you want to avoid damage. The same applies to the MX-5, Corvette etc. These are not really a good daily driver, but more of an enjoyable weekender.
Thrashing it on deserted country back roads, and on a rapid trip between Houston and Corpus Christi, it was around 24 mpg.
The standard Michelins were fairly scary in the wet, but I never had any really serious "moments".
Ride on crappy Houston roads was bloody awful. The lack of ground clearance makes car park ramps etc tricky if you want to avoid damage. The same applies to the MX-5, Corvette etc. These are not really a good daily driver, but more of an enjoyable weekender.
Have to admit- I've never found brands to be the most inspiring to drift in the wet- Snetterton is excellent for that, big run off and a bit more space and a flatter track for composure.
I've always found yoko's (regardless of range type) to be like that in the wet- and in fact the only two big 'off's I've had have been on yokos. Michelins or Pirelli are much more grippy but still let go fairly suddenly whereas Bridgestone are harder and give up their grip sooner, but more progressively which is what I'd rather have as it's much safer on the road, let alone a wet track.
I've always found yoko's (regardless of range type) to be like that in the wet- and in fact the only two big 'off's I've had have been on yokos. Michelins or Pirelli are much more grippy but still let go fairly suddenly whereas Bridgestone are harder and give up their grip sooner, but more progressively which is what I'd rather have as it's much safer on the road, let alone a wet track.
DeaconFrost said:
Try some lightweight stock size wheels with a slightly lower offset and a set of stickyish track tyres (like 595 RSR's). It's a revelation. I've got a set sat in my garage for the 86 if Pistonheads would like to borrow and try them!
Interesting - what wheels are you running?
I am running Dunlop Direzza Star Spec II tires on both road and track - they are gymkhana tires with near semi-slick grip. They come up to temp quickly but have great cold and wet weather performance. Running them on the standard 16" Primo wheel and the car is beautifully adjustable. Highly recommended...
https://youtu.be/4eabIVFlN5M?t=283
https://youtu.be/4eabIVFlN5M?t=283
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