The legality of PCN's
Discussion
Sorry if this is an obvious question, but how are the prices of PCN's justified? For example, the Dartford crossing. It costs £2.50 to make a journey, but if I forget to pay the charge, I'm landed with a £70 fine.
Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
fasimew said:
Sorry if this is an obvious question, but how are the prices of PCN's justified? For example, the Dartford crossing. It costs £2.50 to make a journey, but if I forget to pay the charge, I'm landed with a £70 fine.
Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
Deterrent factor.Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
Also, vans are charged at £3.00 per crossing, if you ever need to take your van across.
fasimew said:
Sorry if this is an obvious question, but how are the prices of PCN's justified? For example, the Dartford crossing. It costs £2.50 to make a journey, but if I forget to pay the charge, I'm landed with a £70 fine.
Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
It's easily justifiable if you consider the costs of sending the invoices and collecting the money from recalcitrant payers.Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
To be fair I think the Dartford crossing operators are one of the more reasonable bodies. For some reason, I omitted to pay and suddenly remembered about 4 days later, but too late. As expected, the PCN arrived about 14 days later, together with a separate letter saying that as this was apparently the first time I had used the crossing I could pay the standard £2.50 online within 24 hours instead.
fasimew said:
Sorry if this is an obvious question, but how are the prices of PCN's justified? For example, the Dartford crossing. It costs £2.50 to make a journey, but if I forget to pay the charge, I'm landed with a £70 fine.
Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
If the punishments were simply what you should have paid anyway, nobody would pay anything and chance they weren't caught.Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
No tolls, no parking fees and then, if you want to go to extremes, no tax, no insurance.
Let's be honest, if you were told that the worst outcome for you not paying for something was that you had to pay for it in xx months time, of course you'd chance it, because the best outcome is you don't have to.
If however the punishment is suddenly a lot harsher, it deters people. It saves on admin (having to chase people for payment) etc.
fasimew said:
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
I think it depends on how old you are?Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
Sebring440 said:
fasimew said:
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
I think it depends on how old you are?Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
OP, their crossing their rules?
That does raise the question of whether you have agreed to a 'contract' with them - are the costs and fines clearly displayed, and do you have an option to not take the crossing if you don't agree ?
As other have said there is the deterant value and they do have costs to cover - it would certainly cost them more than £2.50 to invoice you after the crossing, plus all the potential chasing required etc.
semisane said:
WTF are you on / going on about ??
That does raise the question of whether you have agreed to a 'contract' with them - are the costs and fines clearly displayed, and do you have an option to not take the crossing if you don't agree ?
I agree with the first bit, but as to the second there's no question of a contract having to arise (unless you are a FMOTL loony), as the charges and penalties are set out in statute. You could try judicial review but I think they've got bigger fish to fry.That does raise the question of whether you have agreed to a 'contract' with them - are the costs and fines clearly displayed, and do you have an option to not take the crossing if you don't agree ?
semisane said:
Sebring440 said:
fasimew said:
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
I think it depends on how old you are?Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
OP, their crossing their rules?
That does raise the question of whether you have agreed to a 'contract' with them - are the costs and fines clearly displayed, and do you have an option to not take the crossing if you don't agree ?
As other have said there is the deterant value and they do have costs to cover - it would certainly cost them more than £2.50 to invoice you after the crossing, plus all the potential chasing required etc.
MDMA . said:
semisane said:
Sebring440 said:
fasimew said:
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
I think it depends on how old you are?Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
OP, their crossing their rules?
That does raise the question of whether you have agreed to a 'contract' with them - are the costs and fines clearly displayed, and do you have an option to not take the crossing if you don't agree ?
As other have said there is the deterant value and they do have costs to cover - it would certainly cost them more than £2.50 to invoice you after the crossing, plus all the potential chasing required etc.
Sebring440 said:
I think it depends on how old you are?
Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
Just brilliant but will fly over the head of the OP. Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
markymarkthree said:
Sebring440 said:
I think it depends on how old you are?
Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
Just brilliant but will fly over the head of the OP. Say (for example) you were in "your mid 30s", then it would be one price.
If you were "past retirement age", you may pay a different price.
I guess in your case, you'd have to decide which of the above you identify as?
Mandat said:
fasimew said:
Sorry if this is an obvious question, but how are the prices of PCN's justified? For example, the Dartford crossing. It costs £2.50 to make a journey, but if I forget to pay the charge, I'm landed with a £70 fine.
Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
Deterrent factor.Why is there a fine and not an invoice for £2.50?
How is it justifiable to fine someone £70 for what would have been £2.50?
Also, vans are charged at £3.00 per crossing, if you ever need to take your van across.
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