Single justice procedure notice for parked car sorn
Discussion
Last year had a 2005 astra that was always giving me issues. Eventually had enough sorned it and parked it off road on my drive
Moved houses in December. Had to get rid of the astra, managed to sell it honestly and got transferred the money and have a hand written receipt. Sold it on the 5th of December and sent off v5 by post.
New keeper didn't change the sorn status and parked it on the road. A camera van took a picture of it on the 20th of December and I was issued a fine for the offence of unlicensed keeping or using of a motor vehicle GF55 XXX. I received the fine in february to my old address as an out of court settlement. I collected my letters from the old address end of February as I don't go back to the area I moved roughly 40 miles away. By the time I got the letter it was too late, the letter was over 14 days old and was processing to become a single justice procedure notice. I have then received a letter from DVLA claiming someone is trying to take ownership of GF55 XXX but they didn't get anything from me so I filled it in with the details of who I sold the car to and the date of sale and sent it back. I then got a single justice procedure notice on the 13th of March giving me 21 days to plead guilty, plead guilty and represent my defence in court, or not guilty. I checked online last logbook has been issued on the 14th of march.
It's been a hectic end of the year and start of 2024 I've moved houses, trained to become a driving instructor and I'm now a pdi, and been working 2 jobs to cover my living costs and training in that time. I'm now worried I'm going to convicted of an offense I didn't commit and will get a criminal record and potentially lose my job that I worked hard to get. I've never ever been done for anything in the 10 years I've been driving, only some parking tickets over the years, not even a driver awareness course or anything like that. It looks like I will have to go court but do I plead guilty and defend myself in court or not guilty and go to court. I've been stressed by this situation I have no idea what to do 😔
Moved houses in December. Had to get rid of the astra, managed to sell it honestly and got transferred the money and have a hand written receipt. Sold it on the 5th of December and sent off v5 by post.
New keeper didn't change the sorn status and parked it on the road. A camera van took a picture of it on the 20th of December and I was issued a fine for the offence of unlicensed keeping or using of a motor vehicle GF55 XXX. I received the fine in february to my old address as an out of court settlement. I collected my letters from the old address end of February as I don't go back to the area I moved roughly 40 miles away. By the time I got the letter it was too late, the letter was over 14 days old and was processing to become a single justice procedure notice. I have then received a letter from DVLA claiming someone is trying to take ownership of GF55 XXX but they didn't get anything from me so I filled it in with the details of who I sold the car to and the date of sale and sent it back. I then got a single justice procedure notice on the 13th of March giving me 21 days to plead guilty, plead guilty and represent my defence in court, or not guilty. I checked online last logbook has been issued on the 14th of march.
It's been a hectic end of the year and start of 2024 I've moved houses, trained to become a driving instructor and I'm now a pdi, and been working 2 jobs to cover my living costs and training in that time. I'm now worried I'm going to convicted of an offense I didn't commit and will get a criminal record and potentially lose my job that I worked hard to get. I've never ever been done for anything in the 10 years I've been driving, only some parking tickets over the years, not even a driver awareness course or anything like that. It looks like I will have to go court but do I plead guilty and defend myself in court or not guilty and go to court. I've been stressed by this situation I have no idea what to do 😔
LunarOne said:
I'm not a lawyer, but If you have proof of when you sold the car, just plead not guilty and provide that proof as evidence. You cannot be guilty of the offence if you were not the keeper at the time of the offence, which your evidence ought to prove. I wouldn't be worrying unduly.
The problem is that the OP was not the owner but still the RK at the time of offence.The change of RK is documented as being on 14 March, which is well after the offence was committed.
Mandat said:
LunarOne said:
I'm not a lawyer, but If you have proof of when you sold the car, just plead not guilty and provide that proof as evidence. You cannot be guilty of the offence if you were not the keeper at the time of the offence, which your evidence ought to prove. I wouldn't be worrying unduly.
The problem is that the OP was not the owner but still the RK at the time of offence.The change of RK is documented as being on 14 March, which is well after the offence was committed.
but I do want to fight this in court the systems have done their jobs but my circumstances were a bit unfortunate and I wasn't the one that parked the car of had control over the car at that timeYou say you sent the V5 off at the time of sale (5th December)? Presumably you'd completed the new keeper details on the V5?
Also at the time of sale and change of V5 the tax status would automatically change to 'not SORN' (and now untaxed); the new keeper would have had to declare SORN again (and park off the road!). The fact that you received further communication from DVLA suggests they never received the V5 change of keeper notification in December.
It's for these reasons I'd recommend always doing change of keeper on line.
Also at the time of sale and change of V5 the tax status would automatically change to 'not SORN' (and now untaxed); the new keeper would have had to declare SORN again (and park off the road!). The fact that you received further communication from DVLA suggests they never received the V5 change of keeper notification in December.
It's for these reasons I'd recommend always doing change of keeper on line.
Personal opinion but I would plead not guilty and go to court to defend myself with the evidence you have.
Ive been in a position previously where I sold a car, MOT failure to a scrap car man, for whatever reason the transfer of ownership didn't complete and it was later caught speeding in another city I have never been to, I sent in my proof of sale and who I sold it to with a covering letter and heard nothing more. Your case has gone further OP but still I would say the same principle applies albeit you will have to go to court to explain it
Ive been in a position previously where I sold a car, MOT failure to a scrap car man, for whatever reason the transfer of ownership didn't complete and it was later caught speeding in another city I have never been to, I sent in my proof of sale and who I sold it to with a covering letter and heard nothing more. Your case has gone further OP but still I would say the same principle applies albeit you will have to go to court to explain it
No help now, but from now on change the V5 online with new owner present. Takes seconds on a phone. There's no reason to leave yourself open to this hassle doing it by post.
Do you have a receipt for when you sold it? Or a copy of a bank statement showing the money from the sale going into your account?
Would this count as a criminal offence?
Do you have a receipt for when you sold it? Or a copy of a bank statement showing the money from the sale going into your account?
Would this count as a criminal offence?
DKS said:
No help now, but from now on change the V5 online with new owner present. Takes seconds on a phone. There's no reason to leave yourself open to this hassle doing it by post.
Do you have a receipt for when you sold it? Or a copy of a bank statement showing the money from the sale going into your account?
Would this count as a criminal offence?
I got a bank statement showing payment for the car with reference of the reg. In all honesty I'm more than happy to pay the 450 odd pound fine and 85 surcharge whatever else they charge but I do not want a criminal record at all no matter whatDo you have a receipt for when you sold it? Or a copy of a bank statement showing the money from the sale going into your account?
Would this count as a criminal offence?
DKS said:
No help now, but from now on change the V5 online with new owner present. Takes seconds on a phone. There's no reason to leave yourself open to this hassle doing it by post.
Do you have a receipt for when you sold it? Or a copy of a bank statement showing the money from the sale going into your account?
Would this count as a criminal offence?
I got a bank statement showing payment for the car with reference of the reg. In all honesty I'm more than happy to pay the 450 odd pound fine and 85 surcharge whatever else they charge but I do not want a criminal record at all no matter whatDo you have a receipt for when you sold it? Or a copy of a bank statement showing the money from the sale going into your account?
Would this count as a criminal offence?
Mr.paul.driving said:
I got a bank statement showing payment for the car with reference of the reg. In all honesty I'm more than happy to pay the 450 odd pound fine and 85 surcharge whatever else they charge but I do not want a criminal record at all no matter what
If you have a bank statement with the reg as the reference, then why would you even contemplate paying the fine? The evidence all points towards you being innocent. Just plead not guilty and present your evidence. You'll be fine (and won't be fined)DKS said:
No help now, but from now on change the V5 online with new owner present. Takes seconds on a phone. There's no reason to leave yourself open to this hassle doing it by post.
This every time. Even though it has to be done between 07:00 and 19:00 hrs. If after the time simply do it online the morning after.If it helps put your mind at rest OP, I sold a Renault Twingo RS in 2021. Lovely guy, older chap, but perhaps not the most organised. Sold the car and gave him the V5 - a grave error. When you sell a car, make sure you keep the V5 and only give them the new keeper slip. Then it is in their interests to send off the new keeper slip to the DVLA.
To cut a long story short, he's obviously had some fun in the car and picked up a couple of parking fines and speeding tickets along the way which come to my address. Each time I get them issued to my address, and each time we exchange Watsapps and he promises to sort it out, which I presume he does. I've not heard anything for 6 months so maybe he's got around to it....
Ultimately, you're guilty of being tardy in getting the admin side of things done, but you're not guilty of any driving offence - the written receipt takes care of that. It's unfortunate you'd moved address so couldn't get behind this sooner, but I'd simply plead not guilty and enclose a copy of the receipt.
To cut a long story short, he's obviously had some fun in the car and picked up a couple of parking fines and speeding tickets along the way which come to my address. Each time I get them issued to my address, and each time we exchange Watsapps and he promises to sort it out, which I presume he does. I've not heard anything for 6 months so maybe he's got around to it....
Ultimately, you're guilty of being tardy in getting the admin side of things done, but you're not guilty of any driving offence - the written receipt takes care of that. It's unfortunate you'd moved address so couldn't get behind this sooner, but I'd simply plead not guilty and enclose a copy of the receipt.
Mr.paul.driving said:
Last year had a 2005 astra that was always giving me issues. Eventually had enough sorned it and parked it off road on my drive
Moved houses in December. Had to get rid of the astra, managed to sell it honestly and got transferred the money and have a hand written receipt. Sold it on the 5th of December and sent off v5 by post.
New keeper didn't change the sorn status and parked it on the road. A camera van took a picture of it on the 20th of December and I was issued a fine for the offence of unlicensed keeping or using of a motor vehicle GF55 XXX. I received the fine in february to my old address as an out of court settlement. I collected my letters from the old address end of February as I don't go back to the area I moved roughly 40 miles away. By the time I got the letter it was too late, the letter was over 14 days old and was processing to become a single justice procedure notice. I have then received a letter from DVLA claiming someone is trying to take ownership of GF55 XXX but they didn't get anything from me so I filled it in with the details of who I sold the car to and the date of sale and sent it back. I then got a single justice procedure notice on the 13th of March giving me 21 days to plead guilty, plead guilty and represent my defence in court, or not guilty. I checked online last logbook has been issued on the 14th of march.
It's been a hectic end of the year and start of 2024 I've moved houses, trained to become a driving instructor and I'm now a pdi, and been working 2 jobs to cover my living costs and training in that time. I'm now worried I'm going to convicted of an offense I didn't commit and will get a criminal record and potentially lose my job that I worked hard to get. I've never ever been done for anything in the 10 years I've been driving, only some parking tickets over the years, not even a driver awareness course or anything like that. It looks like I will have to go court but do I plead guilty and defend myself in court or not guilty and go to court. I've been stressed by this situation I have no idea what to do ??
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=2021120&p=1#seperatorMoved houses in December. Had to get rid of the astra, managed to sell it honestly and got transferred the money and have a hand written receipt. Sold it on the 5th of December and sent off v5 by post.
New keeper didn't change the sorn status and parked it on the road. A camera van took a picture of it on the 20th of December and I was issued a fine for the offence of unlicensed keeping or using of a motor vehicle GF55 XXX. I received the fine in february to my old address as an out of court settlement. I collected my letters from the old address end of February as I don't go back to the area I moved roughly 40 miles away. By the time I got the letter it was too late, the letter was over 14 days old and was processing to become a single justice procedure notice. I have then received a letter from DVLA claiming someone is trying to take ownership of GF55 XXX but they didn't get anything from me so I filled it in with the details of who I sold the car to and the date of sale and sent it back. I then got a single justice procedure notice on the 13th of March giving me 21 days to plead guilty, plead guilty and represent my defence in court, or not guilty. I checked online last logbook has been issued on the 14th of march.
It's been a hectic end of the year and start of 2024 I've moved houses, trained to become a driving instructor and I'm now a pdi, and been working 2 jobs to cover my living costs and training in that time. I'm now worried I'm going to convicted of an offense I didn't commit and will get a criminal record and potentially lose my job that I worked hard to get. I've never ever been done for anything in the 10 years I've been driving, only some parking tickets over the years, not even a driver awareness course or anything like that. It looks like I will have to go court but do I plead guilty and defend myself in court or not guilty and go to court. I've been stressed by this situation I have no idea what to do ??
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