Type R and SiR differences???
Discussion
I'm considering purchasing a Honda Integra SiR, as there is one i have taken a fancy to. Well, it's either that or a Celica GT4 to replace my existing ride, a Celica GT. The thing is though, what are the differences in the Type R DC2 and the SiR? Will i notice the extra 15bhp increase in power? Surely i could gain that elsewhere? Also, does the ECU on the SiR have the capability of being tweaked to use lower rated fuel, as the DC2 i hear cannot be. Any help would be much appreciated by you guys.
TotalControl.
TotalControl.
Edited by TotalControl on Monday 29th October 12:59
SiR is a very different car from the Type R - differences aren't just in the engine (ligher parts mean the Type R will be more reliable with constant high revs, although rev limiter on both cars the same, single inlet on ITR means more power at high revs and more aggressive power curve), but the rigidity of the chassis and the way the car feels.
SiR meant to be a decent car (not driven one myself), but if you want an ITR don't think buying a SiR will give you the same pleasure - it won't.
And no, it's not easy to tweak the ECU - most good import places will tweak the timing to cope with UK fuel rather than risk wrecking the ECU.
Google for something like "ITR differences" and you'll see the list of differences between the two cars - it's quite large!
SiR meant to be a decent car (not driven one myself), but if you want an ITR don't think buying a SiR will give you the same pleasure - it won't.
And no, it's not easy to tweak the ECU - most good import places will tweak the timing to cope with UK fuel rather than risk wrecking the ECU.
Google for something like "ITR differences" and you'll see the list of differences between the two cars - it's quite large!
Yeah, I would agree with all that. Type-R is a vastly different car to the SiR, a lot more than 15bhp. Least of all because the way the power is delivered, and couple that with the chassis and suspension differences and you've got 2 very different cars.
That being said, I own an SiR myself and love it, it feels plenty quick is a very nice drive. I have it lowered on fully adjustable Cusco coilovers, and with 16" wheels, and have yet to trouble the grip levels (touch wood!). Took it to the Ring in the summer, 1200 miles in 10 days, didn't skip a beat, and it was awesome fun on track.
If you can't afford the purchase price and insurance of a Type R, you'll still have fun in an SiR. Saying that though, if you've got the budget for a GT4, you could easily afford a Type-R. GT4's a very money hungry, just ask my brother!
That being said, I own an SiR myself and love it, it feels plenty quick is a very nice drive. I have it lowered on fully adjustable Cusco coilovers, and with 16" wheels, and have yet to trouble the grip levels (touch wood!). Took it to the Ring in the summer, 1200 miles in 10 days, didn't skip a beat, and it was awesome fun on track.
If you can't afford the purchase price and insurance of a Type R, you'll still have fun in an SiR. Saying that though, if you've got the budget for a GT4, you could easily afford a Type-R. GT4's a very money hungry, just ask my brother!
Thanks for the info guys. The reason i kind of steered towards the SiR was because, i'm assuming, there was sound deadening on the car unlike the removal of it in the ITR. I have 2 kids as well, so need to be able to pick them up whenever i'm not using the pug 306 diesel (don't ask why i have one). I also munch up quite a fair few miles so need to make sure the car isnt too loud. Any more info would be great. However, would i be able to burn the little saxo/106/fiesta/civic gits away with the SiR? 0 - 60 times would be great.
TotalControl
TotalControl
Edited by TotalControl on Monday 29th October 15:30
Hondata is a little bit overkill for tuning for UK fuel.
I think the SiR sounds like the right choice for you in the circumstances you said, but personally I think an Accord Type R sounds even better for your needs, plus it's got the full "Type R" treatment! Bargains to be had now as well...
At the end of the day, they're all good cars - more tuning parts for the SiR if that floats your boat anyway - it is certainly quieter and longer legged gear-wise than a teg, which is a bit frantic on the motorway ... although to me that's the charm!
I think the SiR sounds like the right choice for you in the circumstances you said, but personally I think an Accord Type R sounds even better for your needs, plus it's got the full "Type R" treatment! Bargains to be had now as well...
At the end of the day, they're all good cars - more tuning parts for the SiR if that floats your boat anyway - it is certainly quieter and longer legged gear-wise than a teg, which is a bit frantic on the motorway ... although to me that's the charm!
Fair point, I'm not sure ... all I know is he's very, very good and well respected in the circles he inhabits ... used to ensure every car brought in was running absolutely bang-on before delivery and as close to factory tolerances, etc. as possible, including making sure it wasn't going to lean out on UK fuel.
As a counterpoint, in my experience as a mod of the largest ITR forum outside of the states that I've not read about anyone having any problems with any of their randomly-imported cars ever having any problems on UK fuel either and that they consistently deliver more power than UK cars when dyno'd, so I'm not sure fettling or indeed a hondata is necessary unless you really care about these things (as you do and I would with an import) anyway. The factory setup is cracking on these engines anyway, except for the stupid VTEC "marketing" cross-over that really should be about a 1000 revs lower.
As a counterpoint, in my experience as a mod of the largest ITR forum outside of the states that I've not read about anyone having any problems with any of their randomly-imported cars ever having any problems on UK fuel either and that they consistently deliver more power than UK cars when dyno'd, so I'm not sure fettling or indeed a hondata is necessary unless you really care about these things (as you do and I would with an import) anyway. The factory setup is cracking on these engines anyway, except for the stupid VTEC "marketing" cross-over that really should be about a 1000 revs lower.
Edited by nebpor on Monday 29th October 23:50
I guess the reason for me not leaning towards an ATR was because ive always had a thing for coupes. Mind you, if i had to purchase a 4 door car like the accord i would probably just purchase an Evo 4. But staying true to the coupes means theres only the Integra. Whats the torque like for those things (the SiR that is), tried to locate some tech specs on the net but to zero success.
TotalControl.
TotalControl.
Edited by TotalControl on Tuesday 30th October 09:26
TotalControl said:
I guess the reason for me not leaning towards an ATR was because ive always had a thing for coupes. Mind you, if i had to purchase a 4 door car like the accord i would probably just purchase an Evo 4. But staying true to the coupes means theres only the Integra. Whats the torque like for those things (the SiR that is), tried to locate some tech specs on the net but to zero success.
TotalControl.
An ATR is definitely a worthy alternative, my oldest brother went from a GT4 to one, and he loves it. I've had a shot and I can see why, it is one of the best cars I've ever driven, everything is setup just right and the steering feel is perfect. I've never driven one but I would of thought of the Evo as leaning towards the hardcore, well more so than the ATR anyway.TotalControl.
Not sure on an actual torque figure, not had my dyno'd, but there is noticeably more torque than the 1.6 Honda engines. Saying that though, I've never really thought of Honda engines as being hugely torquey.
Regarding the muppet drivers, you would have no worries in that respect. I've troubled (and beaten) much more worthy opponents in mine
That was the DC8 as far as i can remember. The reason for the DC2 is because i want to stay loyal to the coupe. Love them too much! And the reason for ruling out the ITR over the SiR was because of the lack of sound deadening. I think my kids need to keep their ears for a short while longer.
TotalControl.
TotalControl.
TotalControl said:
That was the DC8 as far as i can remember. The reason for the DC2 is because i want to stay loyal to the coupe. Love them too much! And the reason for ruling out the ITR over the SiR was because of the lack of sound deadening. I think my kids need to keep their ears for a short while longer.
TotalControl.
It's not that noisy - I ran a stock one for 3 years and >50k - no problems...TotalControl.
...fit a Spoon N1, however, and you deafen people in OTHER cars!!!
If you're looking for a quiet car I wouldn't recommend them! They are very loud, and I've have heard varying reports on their quality/improvements to performance.
If you wanting an aftermarket exhaust for the DC2, I'd recommend a Fujitsubo RMA01, same sound level as the standard exhaust (on the Type R), and a reasonable increase in performance. They also look nice and subtle.
I've got one on my Christmas list
Oh btw, I'm pretty sure the 4 door Teg was the DB8, not DC8.
If you wanting an aftermarket exhaust for the DC2, I'd recommend a Fujitsubo RMA01, same sound level as the standard exhaust (on the Type R), and a reasonable increase in performance. They also look nice and subtle.
I've got one on my Christmas list
Oh btw, I'm pretty sure the 4 door Teg was the DB8, not DC8.
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