R400 kit...What to buy from Caterham/source from others ?

[scorcher]

I quite fancy having a go at building a Caterham and was looking at the R400 kit.Do you have to buy a complete kit from Caterham or can you mix n match and get bits and bobs from other sources and could you build a better car for the same sort of money or are the Cat bits and bobs pretty good anyway?.
Does the starter kit use the same chassis as the R400 kit?.
Any idea what sort of price for a R400 kit minus engine/gearbox/ecu/exhaust/suspension/diff?
Supplier for diff/gearbox/driveshafts for 280+ bhp?.
Is there a point where ( say 250 bhp )where everything needs to be a lot more robust/specialised and will therefore cost a whole lot more ?
Engine and poss. drivetrain installation would be left to someone else who knows their stuff.
Car would be for road and trackdays.
It would be built fairly slowly over the course of 12months or so getting bits and bobs/modules along the way.

Thoughts please? ( bet someone says you dont need to have all those horses )and recommendations from people who have gone down the same sort of course.

[Eric Mc]

Normally Caterham will provide you with everything you need.

If you did build the car using "non-Caterham" parts, you might build it cheaper and more to your liking but it will have an effect on its later value.

[atom-ick]

A common question!

In my experience, the best way to do it is to buy a complete kit from Caterham with everything you need. The car will be the best it can be and the most cost effective - you may be able to source bits cheaper but by the time you take into account the depreciation that a non standard car would suffer it isn't worth it at first.

You can always upgrade it at a later date anyway.

With regards to power, 210bhp is a *lot*. I think if you go much over 240 you will need to start strengthening stuff.

Use it first and decide then if you even feel the need to upgrade.

[fergus]

Eric Mc said:

Normally Caterham will provide you with everything you need.

If you did build the car using "non-Caterham" parts, you might build it cheaper and more to your liking but it will have an effect on its later value.

disagree. Only really for the 'polishers' who are going to buy the car, and wouldn't even know how to change the oil...

several cars have had ammo/DVA engines fitted, with different gearboxes, etc. I don't think this particularly affects the value?

I think that it's the torque rather than the outright power that tends to break things. specific setups (diff ramp angles, and suspension settings) can make life harder for the car. It also depends how mechanically sympathetically the car will be driven...

[dino ferrana]

Fitting non-Caterham bits will definitely have a negative impact on the re-sale value. If you ask that question on Blatchat everyone will tell you it won't matter. But if you suddenly need to sell the car due to illness, bad back, boredom, business opportunity, business failure, redundancy or family expansion then you want it to be easy to sell. Caterham will buy or sell your car for you if it has standard bits, if it is a bitsa and full of second hand or aftermarket bits then they won't. If a good few of the polishers are put off then that often means the price will have to be lower anyway. Always worth bearing in mind that many people build cars themselves with their own bits (often it has to be said to an exceptional standard) and have a budget which ends up being broken many times over!

Please do not take this as slating anyone's work, from what I have read over the years someone like Ammo will build you a fantastic, powerful and reliable engine. The only thing is that the car will always be worth less on the open market than a genuines, R4/500 or whatever.

[fergus]

dino ferrana said:

Please do not take this as slating anyone's work, from what I have read over the years someone like Ammo will build you a fantastic, powerful and reliable engine. The only thing is that the car will always be worth less on the open market than a genuines, R4/500 or whatever.

I guess it depends how you view car ownership... Whether you decide to get the best out of the car whilst in your ownership (i.e. with relevant modifications), or by looking to ease of resale. Each to their own and all that!

[adamh]

scorcher said:

Is there a point where ( say 250 bhp )where everything needs to be a lot more robust/specialised and will therefore cost a whole lot more ?.

Not really . . . the weak area is the diff mounting points. Big torque cars and cars with sequential dog boxes with no cushdrives/donuts can cause chassis damage. On older chassis (pre-97) there is also a weakpoint at the rear of the transmission tunnel.
The standard Ford diff is good for all anyone's ever put through one in a Caterham - and that's probably 350 torques or more with the big VX turbos and Cosworth turbos. Driveshafts and propshafts also seem OK at big power/torque.

If resale value is a big issue, I'd definatey say you're best keeping it to a standard spec, but if you build from new, it will depreciate a lot as all new cars do. Caterhams are still good in this area though with relatively low depreciation.

You considered re-building an older car? Maybe an HPC, JPE, or SLR? All of which sell for a relatively high amount as they're sought after limited edition models. They're simple cars to rebuild. There's also the fact that if you want to put an interesting motor in a Caterham, you're better off using an old one with just the visible smoke test at MOT time.