Red Card Offences

[Glassman]

Following the early red card for Manchester City's Dedryck Boyata after his tackle on Marouane Chamakh, there was quite a bit of debate about whether or not it was a sending off offence.

Listening to TS, a few suggestions were made to let the managers decide on what course of action should be taken, eg, send the player off, or take a penalty (in a last man scenario like the Boyata challenge on Chamakh) instead.

Other suggestions were to sin bin the offending player.

Is there a call for a change in how/when the red card is used?

[Dan_1981]

I don't think any change is needed really.

As to let the manage decide??? Crazy.

And it should never be a penalty OR send the man off, its both, a last man, in the area commiting a foul is a sending off offense, the man goes, and you get a freekick, which happnes to be a penalty if it happened in the area.

Its one area of the game that definitly doesn't need looking at I don't think.

The sin bin might need some consideration for offense that don't warrent a red, or for persistant back chat to the referee or similar.

[Gargamel]

Glassman said:

Following the early red card for Manchester City's Dedryck Boyata after his tackle on Marouane Chamakh, there was quite a bit of debate about whether or not it was a sending off offence.

Listening to TS, a few suggestions were made to let the managers decide on what course of action should be taken, eg, send the player off, or take a penalty (in a last man scenario like the Boyata challenge on Chamakh) instead.

Other suggestions were to sin bin the offending player.

Is there a call for a change in how/when the red card is used?

According to most commentators on that incident, never in the first 45 minutes of a match

Seriously I think the issue here was, everyone is set up for a fascinating afternoon of football, and three minutes into the game it was effectively over as a contest. Amazing, the guy had a choice not to cheat but chose to commit a professional foul, of course he should of gone.

I can't see Wenger (or any other manager) saying , its fine, we don't want to spoil the entertainment, let him stay on and we will have a penalty instead

Maybe if it was a penalty GOAL, it might be a possible option.

[Glassman]

There is the argument that (obviously depending on at what point in the game the man is sent off) a team playing with 10 men can kill the game. In City's case, they raised the tempo and at times it didn't seem like they were missing a man, but playing at that tempo against a passing side like Arsenal, was always going to be a matter of time.

[TEKNOPUG]

Needs to be a penalty goal for any offence in the box denying a clear scoring opportunity, such as one-on-one with the goalie of handball on the line. If it's a foul in the box (the same as anywhere else on the pitch) and it isn't denying a clear scoring opportunity, it should be a penalty. If it's serious foul play, it should be a booking/red card exactly the same as anywhere else on the pitch.

Sending a player off for a challenge in the box that would otherwise merely warrant a free-kick or booking elsewhere on the pitch is nonsense and totally ruins the game.

That game in the World Cup where the guy saved the shot on the line and got sent off. The other team got a penalty and missed - how can that possibly be justified? It was a definite matching-winning goal that was denied and the offending team haven't been penalised.

[Dan_1981]

TEKNOPUG said:

That game in the World Cup where the guy saved the shot on the line and got sent off. The other team got a penalty and missed - how can that possibly be justified? It was a definite matching-winning goal that was denied and the offending team haven't been penalised.

They have been penalised though, the opposing team gets a clear goal scoring oppurtunity and the offending team go down to ten men for the rest of the match.

The awkward cicumstances in this partiuclar game were that it was in the last few seconds so the loss of a man had no real impact.

[TEKNOPUG]

Dan_1981 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

That game in the World Cup where the guy saved the shot on the line and got sent off. The other team got a penalty and missed - how can that possibly be justified? It was a definite matching-winning goal that was denied and the offending team haven't been penalised.

They have been penalised though, the opposing team gets a clear goal scoring oppurtunity and the offending team go down to ten men for the rest of the match.

The awkward cicumstances in this partiuclar game were that it was in the last few seconds so the loss of a man had no real impact.

Firstly, it's not a clear goalscoring opportunity as there is a bloke on the line trying to stop it. Certainly nowhere near as clear a goalscoring opportunity as the header that was goal bound before the guy handled it on the line. Secondly, as you point out, it was the last kick of the game, so sending the guy off equals the square-root of st.

The law is an ass

[Dan_1981]

TEKNOPUG said:

Dan_1981 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

That game in the World Cup where the guy saved the shot on the line and got sent off. The other team got a penalty and missed - how can that possibly be justified? It was a definite matching-winning goal that was denied and the offending team haven't been penalised.

They have been penalised though, the opposing team gets a clear goal scoring oppurtunity and the offending team go down to ten men for the rest of the match.

The awkward cicumstances in this partiuclar game were that it was in the last few seconds so the loss of a man had no real impact.

Firstly, it's not a clear goalscoring opportunity as there is a bloke on the line trying to stop it. Certainly nowhere near as clear a goalscoring opportunity as the header that was goal bound before the guy handled it on the line. Secondly, as you point out, it was the last kick of the game, so sending the guy off equals the square-root of st.

The law is an ass

I'm basing my terminology on your own....

TEKNOPUG said:

Needs to be a penalty goal for any offence in the box denying a clear scoring opportunity, such as one-on-one with the goalie of handball on the line

Having a penalty kick from 12 yards out with no one trying to tackle you and only one bloke in the way of you scoring is as close to a clear goal scoring oppurtunity your going to get.

I understand while people might want to change things but I think the current system is perfectly good. On Sunday I would argue Arsenal were granted a much better oppurtunity than being given a simple penalty goal and continuing the game against 11 men. They were given the oopurtunity to play agasint 10 men for 87 minutes. They could have ran riot and done their goal difference a world of good.

Credit to Man City who continued to play extremely well. If it had remained 11 men each but Arsenal were winning 1-0 I think City would have won the game. Then where would the punishment have been?

[TEKNOPUG]

Dan_1981 said:

Having a penalty kick from 12 yards out with no one trying to tackle you and only one bloke in the way of you scoring is as close to a clear goal scoring oppurtunity your going to get.

?????
Closer than having an open goal from 3 yards out and about to kick the ball when someone pushes you from behind?

Closer than when you have rounded the keep and have an empty net to pass the ball into and the keeper clips your ankles?

Closer than when you've sent a goalbound header past the keeper and into the net to score and then a defender sticks his hand out?

Whatchoo talkin'bout Willis??

Got any stats of penalties converted against goals scored when there is no defender or goalkeeper between the player with the ball & the goal?

[Dan_1981]

Not those exact stats but these may help......



So overall 80% of awarded penalties awarded are scored.

Now isn't that a better system than having to decide everytime there is a foul if it was a clear goal scoring oppurtunity...

I mean sure it looks easy but things like this sometimes happen....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkKAufv6wU

[Glassman]

Dan_1981 said:

I mean sure it looks easy but things like this sometimes happen....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkKAufv6wU

With five to the good, it was no real drama tbf

[hornetrider]

Glassman said:

Following the early red card for Manchester City's Dedryck Boyata after his tackle on Marouane Chamakh, there was quite a bit of debate about whether or not it was a sending off offence.

Listening to TS, a few suggestions were made to let the managers decide on what course of action should be taken, eg, send the player off, or take a penalty (in a last man scenario like the Boyata challenge on Chamakh) instead.

Other suggestions were to sin bin the offending player.

Is there a call for a change in how/when the red card is used?

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Spot the obvious mistake.

[Glassman]

hornetrider said:

Spot the obvious mistake.

I know what you mean, but it was largely the listeners' opinion I was referring to.

Honest.

[tamore]

just watched the highlights back in preparation to answer the op. there was no way chamakh was going to score a goal as the ball was in hart's arms by the time he hit the deck.

it was 'last man' which isn't even in the rulebook.

strictly speaking a yellow card, but the common interpretation of the rules these days is a red.

[hornetrider]

Glassman said:

hornetrider said:

Spot the obvious mistake.

I know what you mean, but it was largely the listeners' opinion I was referring to.

Honest.

Either or mate its all bks on the wind up designed to get meatheads ringing in. It's a trolls paradise that shower of st!