Do all disc brakes rub?

Do all disc brakes rub?

Author
Discussion

porka944s

Original Poster:

378 posts

178 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
I have only delved into bikes with hydraulic discs lately, and only more recently ridden said bike in the woods. This weekend i went to both Wendover Woods and Swinley Forrest for a ride, on Saturday i found that my front brake was binding a bit and fighting my efforts, and after Sunday at Swinley with all the sand my rear disc is now really graunching, I know hosing down is bad but i just wanted to get the worse off, what do i have to do to prevent this and fix it now, shall i just take it apart and clean it? I havent a clue how to adjust hydraulic brakes on a bike! Whilst at Swinley i noticed i could hear practically every bikers brakes binding, why is this? i think i might just stick some XT V brakes on my other bike as discs seem like real aggro!
I need to get a good clean down regime set up!

LRdriver II

1,936 posts

250 months

Monday 15th November 2010
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Binding or just a loud "shing..shing..shing" sound?

The tolerances are so tight that a slightly out of true disc will make this sound. Also you may have one piston not retracting enough to clear said disc.

Even though discs look cool, they seemed to be a solution to a problem that did not exist especially on XC bikes where V-brakes are lighter and better.

Pupp

12,239 posts

273 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
LRdriver II said:
Even though discs look cool, they seemed to be a solution to a problem that did not exist especially on XC bikes where V-brakes are lighter and better.
Hmmmm.... ever tried wet weather rides in the peaks? I've killed rims in a single afternoon with V brakes...

blackburn

2,336 posts

199 months

Monday 15th November 2010
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Pupp said:
LRdriver II said:
Even though discs look cool, they seemed to be a solution to a problem that did not exist especially on XC bikes where V-brakes are lighter and better.
Hmmmm.... ever tried wet weather rides in the peaks? I've killed rims in a single afternoon with V brakes...
This. V brakes are great on my Kona in the dry - throw in some water / mud / grit etc and they're woeful. Hydraulic discs on the Orange are far more 'stable' wet or dry.

porka944s

Original Poster:

378 posts

178 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
Im pretty sure its actually binding, the back disc actually sounds kinda gravelly now, some of the sand must of washed into the calliper, i hope this doesnt happen every time i go out in harsh conditions.
its a shame not a lot of good susp forks come with v brake mounts now.
It could be connected to me taking the wheels on and off with the QR to put in the car, but i dont see how that should effect it surely they should locate themselves correctly?

Edited by porka944s on Monday 15th November 13:25

Mars

8,723 posts

215 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
porka944s said:
I have only delved into bikes with hydraulic discs lately, and only more recently ridden said bike in the woods. This weekend i went to both Wendover Woods and Swinley Forrest for a ride, on Saturday i found that my front brake was binding a bit and fighting my efforts, and after Sunday at Swinley with all the sand my rear disc is now really graunching, I know hosing down is bad but i just wanted to get the worse off, what do i have to do to prevent this and fix it now, shall i just take it apart and clean it? I havent a clue how to adjust hydraulic brakes on a bike! Whilst at Swinley i noticed i could hear practically every bikers brakes binding, why is this? i think i might just stick some XT V brakes on my other bike as discs seem like real aggro!
I need to get a good clean down regime set up!
Mine don't bind, but they squeal when wet (until the heat from a decent-speed slow-down dries them) and there is a little shing-shing on occasions from the disk being a micrometer out of true. But they don't bind at all. In fact, the pads seem to spring slightly clear of the disk (we're talking paper-thickness distance) which is enough.

OneDs

1,628 posts

177 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
It doesn't have to be this way, generally 95% of rub is down to set-up procedure or a bent disc.

If the disc is not true it will rub, if the placement of the wheel in the drop-outs is not right or done with too much or too little torque then it will rub.

Any adjustment opportunities on alignment (if available) to widen the distance between the pads is just dialling out these opportunities for discrepancy, and will decrease your braking performance, in terms of more lever travel for same stopping power.

If you know how to align your calliper rather than widening the gap between your pads then you can circumvent some of these issues, if you ensure your wheel is always in the axle at the same position with the same torque then you get round most of the issues. Only thing for a bent disc is to unbend it or get a new one.

If this doesn't fix the issue then your calliper is not working properly and that will require further investigation.

With regard to sand on your rear, take out your disc & pads wash it out gently with some water and degreaser if needed, then give your pads & disc a clean with meths. Then bed in your pads again, 10-20 fast stops using just that brake will be fine.


porka944s

Original Poster:

378 posts

178 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
Cheers for that!

ribbit

46 posts

195 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
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I would also note from experience that MTB discs warp very easily so the shing-shing-shing is largely unavoidable.

OneDs

1,628 posts

177 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
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ribbit said:
I would also note from experience that MTB discs warp very easily so the shing-shing-shing is largely unavoidable.
It is avoidable either a large adjustable spanner or one of these

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...

Apply some suitable leverage in the right place, easily found by running the disc through the calliper and finding where it is out of true and the jobs a goodun. If it's trueable then 5 mins work max, if not you know you need a new one.

Not saying how long it will stay in true for but at least you can start in the right place.

ribbit

46 posts

195 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
It's true that you can try flattening the disc, but I'd question the value of making the effort. One more moderate descent and it'll be hot enough to fry your breakfast and will assume a new shape.

OneDs

1,628 posts

177 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
ribbit said:
It's true that you can try flattening the disc, but I'd question the value of making the effort. One more moderate descent and it'll be hot enough to fry your breakfast and will assume a new shape.
agreed

OneDs said:
Not saying how long it will stay in true for but at least you can start in the right place.
I would imagine that the bigger the disc and the more it is asked to do the more prevalent the problem is.

On my 160mm fronts & rears on general easy xc and singletrack I've found that I have to true them or reseat the calliper about 3 or 4 time a year.

BalhamBadger

1,161 posts

174 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
My bike is relatively new and started to "shing..shing..shing" as soon as I'd had the wheels off. Sometimes it's worse than others and I can lessen it if I fiddle with the way the wheels sit in the drop outs. It doesn't bother me too much and I doubt the amount of friction generated makes any difference. Saying that any quick and dirty tips to stop the rub would be most appreciated!

the_lone_wolf

2,622 posts

187 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
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BalhamBadger said:
My bike is relatively new and started to "shing..shing..shing" as soon as I'd had the wheels off. Sometimes it's worse than others and I can lessen it if I fiddle with the way the wheels sit in the drop outs. It doesn't bother me too much and I doubt the amount of friction generated makes any difference. Saying that any quick and dirty tips to stop the rub would be most appreciated!
When you re-fitted the wheels did you loosen then re-tighten the calliper bolts while holding the brake on? If you can improve the noise by moving the wheel it suggests that the calliper may be out of alignment

Doubt you'll get the slight shing noise to disappear without holding the pads so far from the rotor that the lever travel will be unacceptable


ribbit

46 posts

195 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
OneDs said:
ribbit said:
It's true that you can try flattening the disc, but I'd question the value of making the effort. One more moderate descent and it'll be hot enough to fry your breakfast and will assume a new shape.
agreed

OneDs said:
Not saying how long it will stay in true for but at least you can start in the right place.
I would imagine that the bigger the disc and the more it is asked to do the more prevalent the problem is.

On my 160mm fronts & rears on general easy xc and singletrack I've found that I have to true them or reseat the calliper about 3 or 4 time a year.
In theory floating rotors should help alleviate the 'problem', but only if true floating discs are used rather than the present design which is a compromise. As is everything, and I have to say the rubbing doesn't bother me at all, even though I am aware that it's there.

One of those things it's best to simply put up with I think. Not worth fiddling with the brake setup to make them silent and running the risk of reducing the effectiveness of the brakes.

BalhamBadger

1,161 posts

174 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
the_lone_wolf said:
BalhamBadger said:
My bike is relatively new and started to "shing..shing..shing" as soon as I'd had the wheels off. Sometimes it's worse than others and I can lessen it if I fiddle with the way the wheels sit in the drop outs. It doesn't bother me too much and I doubt the amount of friction generated makes any difference. Saying that any quick and dirty tips to stop the rub would be most appreciated!
When you re-fitted the wheels did you loosen then re-tighten the calliper bolts while holding the brake on? If you can improve the noise by moving the wheel it suggests that the calliper may be out of alignment

Doubt you'll get the slight shing noise to disappear without holding the pads so far from the rotor that the lever travel will be unacceptable
No, I definitely didn't change anything on the caliper. I wouldn't know how to. In fact I haven't much of a clue about how disc brakes work and how to service them. Presumably they last forever and require no maintenance.

OneDs

1,628 posts

177 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
The easy tips are:-

Put your wheels in with the bike upside down, helps ensure the hub/axle is square and fully in the dropouts, rather than leaning over the bars at an angle to get it in quickly on the trail.

Once the wheel is in the dropouts, pull the relevant brake lever (or wrap an elastic band round it) then tighten the axle, this also helps hold the disc/wheel in the right position

Give a spin if it rubs try a little more or little less torque on the axle.

After that your into adjusting gap width, retruing discs, realigning callipers and possibly cleaning/rebuilding calliper pistons and bleeding if they are not working as they should.

EDIT:- They certainly aren't completely maintenance free, but they are relatively easy to service. Pads are generally easy if not a bit fiddly to change, rotors unless completely buggered do last along time and are easy to change. Bleeding the system is generally straight forward as well with the right kit. The rear with the longer hose length tends to increase travel first as depending on the fluids used can absorb water over time.

Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 16th November 16:37

the_lone_wolf

2,622 posts

187 months

Tuesday 16th November 2010
quotequote all
BalhamBadger said:
the_lone_wolf said:
BalhamBadger said:
My bike is relatively new and started to "shing..shing..shing" as soon as I'd had the wheels off. Sometimes it's worse than others and I can lessen it if I fiddle with the way the wheels sit in the drop outs. It doesn't bother me too much and I doubt the amount of friction generated makes any difference. Saying that any quick and dirty tips to stop the rub would be most appreciated!
When you re-fitted the wheels did you loosen then re-tighten the calliper bolts while holding the brake on? If you can improve the noise by moving the wheel it suggests that the calliper may be out of alignment

Doubt you'll get the slight shing noise to disappear without holding the pads so far from the rotor that the lever travel will be unacceptable
No, I definitely didn't change anything on the caliper. I wouldn't know how to. In fact I haven't much of a clue about how disc brakes work and how to service them. Presumably they last forever and require no maintenance.
Try simply loosening the calliper and re-tightening the bolts with the relevant brake on - makes a big difference - I find every time the wheels come off they require re-alignment.

Only takes a second or two...