Smelly bathroom. Durgo valve to blame?
Discussion
Recently did my bathroom and ensuite and fitted durgo valves in both rooms, height of these is above wc but slightly below sink level. The boxing which houses these durgos is open to the room, i recently put some insulation in to block this hole which seemed to make things worse.
I was assured by the merchants and a few plumbers that 'everyone does that mate'
Well i have noticed some sewage type smells and upon googling it appears i should not have durgos fitted.
Originally the bathroom stack was vented through the roof and the ensuite was piped into the loft on what i think/thought was a durgo valve, house is 85 built so not sure if they were about then, it definately was not a typical vent though.
So whats the answer? I could with a lot of aggro break a hole in the wall behind the bathroom and remove the valve, reroute (pipe would have to 90 and then 90 again) straight through and into the original vent. Believe me though i would rather not do this.
I am under the impression its only the stack furthest away needs venting? so ensuite would remain unaffected.
I was assured by the merchants and a few plumbers that 'everyone does that mate'
Well i have noticed some sewage type smells and upon googling it appears i should not have durgos fitted.
Originally the bathroom stack was vented through the roof and the ensuite was piped into the loft on what i think/thought was a durgo valve, house is 85 built so not sure if they were about then, it definately was not a typical vent though.
So whats the answer? I could with a lot of aggro break a hole in the wall behind the bathroom and remove the valve, reroute (pipe would have to 90 and then 90 again) straight through and into the original vent. Believe me though i would rather not do this.
I am under the impression its only the stack furthest away needs venting? so ensuite would remain unaffected.
Ferg said:
Yes, the head of the run needs venting. Air Admittance Valves rarely smell unless quite old.
Thanks for the replies.How do i know if its the head of the run? could there be more houses on the street which would make me half way down iykwim?
I have just read that an 'anti vac trap' may do the job as essentially the height of the durgo could be emptying the trap on the sink. I must be honest in that when i flush the toilet i do hear some gurgle type air noises.
Going to go and see if the trap under the sink is empty right now.
m3jappa said:
Ferg said:
Yes, the head of the run needs venting. Air Admittance Valves rarely smell unless quite old.
Thanks for the replies.How do i know if its the head of the run? could there be more houses on the street which would make me half way down iykwim?
I have just read that an 'anti vac trap' may do the job as essentially the height of the durgo could be emptying the trap on the sink. I must be honest in that when i flush the toilet i do hear some gurgle type air noises.
Going to go and see if the trap under the sink is empty right now.
I just checked the traps.
Basically there seems to be literally no water in them (they are hudson reed), after a toilet flush theres a little dribble left in the trap , however even if i let the water run into the trap and then try to empty it the same amount of water comes out. Which i really dont get, surely the traps must be holding water?
The trap in the wet room base is 100% holding water, i can see it when i take the grille off.
Not sure about the bath.
I also filled the sink up, let it empty and flushed the toilet while it emptied. I got a tiny tiny glug come out the emptying water. Same in both rooms and the visible wet room drain.
I am under the impression a durgo can not let air out, only in, so if its the durgo making the smell then they may be faulty- but then theres 2 of them.
Theres lots of conflicting info out there, some say they are fine to use (like i was told) some say big no no need venting normally on at least one stack. Leaves me confused and with an occasional smelly bathroom and ensuite.
Basically there seems to be literally no water in them (they are hudson reed), after a toilet flush theres a little dribble left in the trap , however even if i let the water run into the trap and then try to empty it the same amount of water comes out. Which i really dont get, surely the traps must be holding water?
The trap in the wet room base is 100% holding water, i can see it when i take the grille off.
Not sure about the bath.
I also filled the sink up, let it empty and flushed the toilet while it emptied. I got a tiny tiny glug come out the emptying water. Same in both rooms and the visible wet room drain.
I am under the impression a durgo can not let air out, only in, so if its the durgo making the smell then they may be faulty- but then theres 2 of them.
Theres lots of conflicting info out there, some say they are fine to use (like i was told) some say big no no need venting normally on at least one stack. Leaves me confused and with an occasional smelly bathroom and ensuite.
m3jappa said:
I am under the impression a durgo can not let air out, only in, so if its the durgo making the smell then they may be faulty- but then theres 2 of them.
Theres lots of conflicting info out there, some say they are fine to use (like i was told) some say big no no need venting normally on at least one stack. Leaves me confused and with an occasional smelly bathroom and ensuite.
If you ARE pulling traps, it must be the AAVs really. They should be admitting air at the same rate as the water goes down the drain to prevent this. You could try anti-syphon traps. The McAlpine ones are essentially just a trap with a small AAV built in. Theres lots of conflicting info out there, some say they are fine to use (like i was told) some say big no no need venting normally on at least one stack. Leaves me confused and with an occasional smelly bathroom and ensuite.
As an aside from this, when we moved in, we replaced the bathroom, and removed the soil pipe vent through the roof.
Across the road re-did their bathroom but left the vent pipe. We are at the top of a hill, at the start end of the sewage run.
Last week somebody further down the line emptied something into the drains, both our bungalows were filled with a stench so bad that British Gas and the Police turned up to investigate. The Police called the Fire Service, but they wouldn't come out unless the source of the stench could be found.
It took several hours for the smell to dissipate, and our house was free from the smell before the other one. So, I guess it doesn't matter which system you use, it can be bypassed.
We never did find out either what the cause was, or who caused it, but it smelt sort of like a petrol/solvent/paint mix.
Across the road re-did their bathroom but left the vent pipe. We are at the top of a hill, at the start end of the sewage run.
Last week somebody further down the line emptied something into the drains, both our bungalows were filled with a stench so bad that British Gas and the Police turned up to investigate. The Police called the Fire Service, but they wouldn't come out unless the source of the stench could be found.
It took several hours for the smell to dissipate, and our house was free from the smell before the other one. So, I guess it doesn't matter which system you use, it can be bypassed.
We never did find out either what the cause was, or who caused it, but it smelt sort of like a petrol/solvent/paint mix.
If you are stuffing insulation around the AAV that may stop it operating correctly. As a result you will end up with an unvented system and the appliances will be inclined to draw the traps.
The AAV will not let smells out if working correctly.
Any appliance connected to a SVP needs a 75mm deep seal trap and the waste diameter can affect the performance of that trap in terms of keeping a seal. Where it is problematic you can change to a resealing trap which tends to alleviate trap drawing.
The AAV will not let smells out if working correctly.
Any appliance connected to a SVP needs a 75mm deep seal trap and the waste diameter can affect the performance of that trap in terms of keeping a seal. Where it is problematic you can change to a resealing trap which tends to alleviate trap drawing.
If the problem persists, I suggest fitting HepvO traps - they act as a type of aav anyway, but as they are waterless, they will reseal even if the pipework goes negative pressure sufficient to empty a conventional trap. We had a basin waste that made an adjacent shower trap glug when emptying, a HepvO completely stopped it happening.
Thanks for the replies.
I have just checked the sink trap again and there IS water in there, it just didnt come out when i tipped it, bit of an odd design but there was water there.
So what could be causing the smell? Smelly again tonight, not that bad but not that nice either. (I have taken away the insulation so the boxing which holds the aav is clear).
I have just checked the sink trap again and there IS water in there, it just didnt come out when i tipped it, bit of an odd design but there was water there.
So what could be causing the smell? Smelly again tonight, not that bad but not that nice either. (I have taken away the insulation so the boxing which holds the aav is clear).
Well.....
It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
Ferg said:
Well.....
It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
Ferg what do you mean svp and open waste boss?It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
The gurgle is a sort of afterun noise when you flush the toilet, its not coming from the traps as such, its just a noise i can hear, i dont know where from, same as the smell it cant be located to anything.
There is something left open though, not sure if it would have anything to do with it. The downstairs toilet is yet to be fitted, the hole in the stack which the toilet waste will go in is just stuffed with a towel. It does smell in there occasionaly too, i just put that down to the forementioned. This stack is the same one as the ensuite, which is seperate to the bathroom.
Only thing which is altered is these durgos in place of what was originally there.
m3jappa said:
Ferg said:
Well.....
It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
Ferg what do you mean svp and open waste boss?It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
The gurgle is a sort of afterun noise when you flush the toilet, its not coming from the traps as such, its just a noise i can hear, i dont know where from, same as the smell it cant be located to anything.
There is something left open though, not sure if it would have anything to do with it. The downstairs toilet is yet to be fitted, the hole in the stack which the toilet waste will go in is just stuffed with a towel. It does smell in there occasionaly too, i just put that down to the forementioned. This stack is the same one as the ensuite, which is seperate to the bathroom.
Only thing which is altered is these durgos in place of what was originally there.
Is there a waste pipe removed downstairs? The smell could be coming up the boxing? Boss pipes have connections at 0 - 90 - 180 degrees if you see what I mean. If anything is changed and the pipe goes in elsewhere sometimes the open boss gets forgotten.
Ferg said:
m3jappa said:
Ferg said:
Well.....
It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
Ferg what do you mean svp and open waste boss?It sounds like you have something open somewhere. Has anything been altered? Sometimes a change in configuration on the SVP can mean an open waste boss gets left uncapped. Otherwise dry traps. You did say that there is a gurgling from the trap when you flush? That's not good really.
The gurgle is a sort of afterun noise when you flush the toilet, its not coming from the traps as such, its just a noise i can hear, i dont know where from, same as the smell it cant be located to anything.
There is something left open though, not sure if it would have anything to do with it. The downstairs toilet is yet to be fitted, the hole in the stack which the toilet waste will go in is just stuffed with a towel. It does smell in there occasionaly too, i just put that down to the forementioned. This stack is the same one as the ensuite, which is seperate to the bathroom.
Only thing which is altered is these durgos in place of what was originally there.
Is there a waste pipe removed downstairs? The smell could be coming up the boxing? Boss pipes have connections at 0 - 90 - 180 degrees if you see what I mean. If anything is changed and the pipe goes in elsewhere sometimes the open boss gets forgotten.
Anyway, after paying £60 to Dyno-Rod we got the drains sorted. It must have been an industrial grade one or something and had actually clogged up the manhole in our lane.
Fast forwards a few days and the downstairs WC absolutely stinks. It is as if something has died in there!!!
I spent a couple of hours poking around and lifting various manhole lids but eventually realised that the smell was coming from the extraction fan...??
Taking the fan off and shining my bike lamp down the old elephants trunk, I saw one of these wedged in there...
So it was nothing to do with fat fanny afterall...
I realised that when I had built our extension a couple of years ago, I had forgotten to put the grill on the end of the vent ductwork and some poor little bluetits had decided to set up home above my kitchen ceiling in the nice warm extract ductwork from the downstairs loo.
One poor unfortunate tit had gone and got stuck in the flexible pipework just behind the fan and had flippin died in there, decomposing right next to the fan from the loo.
Anyway, now that the corpse has been removed and the stink eradicated I can now go back to using the old throne without having to have a peg on my nose. Result!
Hope this helps. (!!!)
^^^^^ Lol am i out of order to laugh at the above 
maybe its just how you relayed the story lol.
Anyway
I am 99% sure i have tracked down the smell, the bath does smell 100% upon further inspection the bath trap is fitted badly by myself, basically the trap is at an angle, i believe that while there is some water in it, it is not full up and is letting air in. I am also sure the gurgle sound comes from the bath.
I don't know why i fitted it like that but its not going to be too hard to rectify, so lets hope it sorts it.
I believe the ensuite smells becuase of the open boxing in the toilet beneath.
Ferg does my theory sound sensible before i go cutting stuff up?
maybe its just how you relayed the story lol.Anyway
I am 99% sure i have tracked down the smell, the bath does smell 100% upon further inspection the bath trap is fitted badly by myself, basically the trap is at an angle, i believe that while there is some water in it, it is not full up and is letting air in. I am also sure the gurgle sound comes from the bath.
I don't know why i fitted it like that but its not going to be too hard to rectify, so lets hope it sorts it.
I believe the ensuite smells becuase of the open boxing in the toilet beneath.
Ferg does my theory sound sensible before i go cutting stuff up?
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