fitting a new threadless headset
Discussion
The instructions says I should use a reaming and facing tool on the frame and fork before installing to prepare and says this is essential. Is it really?
If so, any reccomendations for what I should get (probably cheaper to get LBS to fit it, but better to collect the necessary tools in my opinion!)
If so, any reccomendations for what I should get (probably cheaper to get LBS to fit it, but better to collect the necessary tools in my opinion!)
Is this to push the cups in? What is the frame made of?
With any metal frame you can gently tap the cups into place with a soft-faced hammer (wood or rubber). I'm not sure what the best approach is with CF frames.
Reaming tools are to remove burr which your frame shouldn't have. I've never needed such.
Some people prefer to press their cups in but whilst I think that's fine with steel-based frames (in CroMo) I wouldn't be so happy about it with aluminium because you don't get much feedback/feel from using a press or vice. Using such is all well and good if you're 100% confident you have them lined up perfectly but if you try to press when they're not, you could cause damage.
Tapping cups in with a wooden mallet is both incremental and fairly gentle.
With any metal frame you can gently tap the cups into place with a soft-faced hammer (wood or rubber). I'm not sure what the best approach is with CF frames.
Reaming tools are to remove burr which your frame shouldn't have. I've never needed such.
Some people prefer to press their cups in but whilst I think that's fine with steel-based frames (in CroMo) I wouldn't be so happy about it with aluminium because you don't get much feedback/feel from using a press or vice. Using such is all well and good if you're 100% confident you have them lined up perfectly but if you try to press when they're not, you could cause damage.
Tapping cups in with a wooden mallet is both incremental and fairly gentle.
Its a scandium ali frame, preparing to push cups in yes. I guess it just says it on the instructions for safety purposes and so if people try to return bent cups and turns out frame needed prepping. Has run a Hope headset for about 4 years but I just can't keep it tight anymore and found a bargain Cane Creek 110 to replace it with. Will have a good look before fitting and will tap in with a little wooden hammer I have.
cheers
cheers
itsnotarace said:
Making sure it's all squared off is the most important thing, and that's hard (but not impossible) to achieve with a rubber / wooden mallet
If it goes in with poor alignment then it will never really run smoothly and it will wear out quickly.
To be honest, I've never found that a problem in practice. Any irregularities in alignment get sorted within the first few minutes of riding. It might result in a requirement to re-tighten again but shouldn't lead to long term damage.If it goes in with poor alignment then it will never really run smoothly and it will wear out quickly.
I've never "pressed" any head or BB cups in and never had a problem (I've done a fair few over the years) but I absolutely *do* think that for a few quid it is worthwhile asking at your LBS if you're in anyway unsure about this.
Given it's a nice frame I'd be tempted to do it properly.
Don't get me wrong, I've used the hammer and block of wood technique plenty of times, but it'll only be a few quid to face the frame at a bike shop, and they'll have the tools to get the old race off without gouging the steerer tube (unless hope have split lower races? Can't remember) and press in the new headset properly.
Don't get me wrong, I've used the hammer and block of wood technique plenty of times, but it'll only be a few quid to face the frame at a bike shop, and they'll have the tools to get the old race off without gouging the steerer tube (unless hope have split lower races? Can't remember) and press in the new headset properly.
Mars said:
To be honest, I've never found that a problem in practice. Any irregularities in alignment get sorted within the first few minutes of riding. It might result in a requirement to re-tighten again but shouldn't lead to long term damage.
Sorry I'm not following. Do you mean adjust the play in the headset bearings? Headsets are easier to damage than most people think, the bearings themselves may be hard but the races aren't and get deformed fairly easily. If they are not installed square then the headset won't move freely and it will accelerate wear. It's not as simple as just taking up the excess play in the bearings - if the bearings aren't running smoothly internally then the bike will ride badly.
No, what I meant was that if there is any possibility that the cup isn't flush with the headtube, then you will either get tight-spots as you turn, or it'll be loose, again as you turn.
If it's tight, it'll end up massaging the cup flush with the headtube. If it's loose when you turn you'll tighten it which will lead to it being too tight when you straighten-up, which will push the cup against the headtube again.
Not an ideal situation but shouldn't lead to damage. I'm not aware that cups are soft enough to damage in this way and I have worked with hardened steel AND aluminium cups (for sealed BB bearings).
I've never actually put together a bike which had anything other than fully-flush cups. It's really not that hard to do.
That said, I have seen a cup that an idiot "tapped" into place with a lump hammer which resembled a Dali painting.
If it's tight, it'll end up massaging the cup flush with the headtube. If it's loose when you turn you'll tighten it which will lead to it being too tight when you straighten-up, which will push the cup against the headtube again.
Not an ideal situation but shouldn't lead to damage. I'm not aware that cups are soft enough to damage in this way and I have worked with hardened steel AND aluminium cups (for sealed BB bearings).
I've never actually put together a bike which had anything other than fully-flush cups. It's really not that hard to do.
That said, I have seen a cup that an idiot "tapped" into place with a lump hammer which resembled a Dali painting.
itsnotarace said:
Making sure it's all squared off is the most important thing, and that's hard (but not impossible) to achieve with a rubber / wooden mallet
If it goes in with poor alignment then it will never really run smoothly and it will wear out quickly.
but going back to my original post, if I ream and face the frame, will that even guarantee me perfect alignment as I will still need to fit the cups one way or another after that?! If it goes in with poor alignment then it will never really run smoothly and it will wear out quickly.
zebedee said:
itsnotarace said:
Making sure it's all squared off is the most important thing, and that's hard (but not impossible) to achieve with a rubber / wooden mallet
If it goes in with poor alignment then it will never really run smoothly and it will wear out quickly.
but going back to my original post, if I ream and face the frame, will that even guarantee me perfect alignment as I will still need to fit the cups one way or another after that?! If it goes in with poor alignment then it will never really run smoothly and it will wear out quickly.
MrTom said:
If the frame is faced properly and you own a headset press then yes. LBS charged me £5 for facing and headset pressing, the tools to do the job are £420+.
OK - I won't be buying the tools then! I will probably have a go and see how I get on but the minute there are any problems will take it to the LBS.cheers chaps
Yes - proper assembly tools from park etc are £££, same as BB fdacing tools etc. They work VERY well though.
My advice (having earnt my crust doing this, not just a DIY'er) is always to 'press' them in rather than 'tap' them in.
For the keen DIY'er its very possible to build your own press though - will be more fiddly and less accurate than your bike shops Park tools but better than a mallett.
Spring clamps (for cars) are a really cheap way of getting some useful tough threaded bar - my headset press is made for a set of very strong, very cheap spring clamps, and used with an assortment of big washers and old 3/8 drive sockets, and works a treat.
My advice (having earnt my crust doing this, not just a DIY'er) is always to 'press' them in rather than 'tap' them in.
For the keen DIY'er its very possible to build your own press though - will be more fiddly and less accurate than your bike shops Park tools but better than a mallett.
Spring clamps (for cars) are a really cheap way of getting some useful tough threaded bar - my headset press is made for a set of very strong, very cheap spring clamps, and used with an assortment of big washers and old 3/8 drive sockets, and works a treat.
zebedee said:
but going back to my original post, if I ream and face the frame, will that even guarantee me perfect alignment as I will still need to fit the cups one way or another after that?!
If the frame has had a headset fitted previously, it's unlikely it will need to be refaceditsnotarace said:
If the frame has had a headset fitted previously, it's unlikely it will need to be refaced
Hardly any frames are faced out of the factory, and while it should be done it often isn't - much like facing disk mounts, it's expensive and not easily noticed by the customer. Fitting a new headset is an excellent opportunity to put things right.shalmaneser said:
Hardly any frames are faced out of the factory, and while it should be done it often isn't - much like facing disk mounts, it's expensive and not easily noticed by the customer. Fitting a new headset is an excellent opportunity to put things right.
frame purchased together with all custom parts to build it, and built, at good bike shop. Am sure they will have done it.If you're doing it yourself, don't use a mallet. It's so simple to make a headset press yourself, google will even show up videos to help you make it. I made one out of 300 mm threaded tube with some large washers each side to go over the headset cups and some nuts at each end to tighten it up. Just go slow and it'l be a doddle. PM me if you need some more instructions. think it cost me less than £5 and I still use it in the workshop next the £55 Park headset press!
where did you get the threaded tube and how did you get the screws/nuts whatever to match the thread? what kind of thread is best, too shallow and presumably you wouldn't get enough torque to overcome friction and push them in properly, too wide and you wouldn't get enough purchase to make it work and stay square?
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