eBay dispute - advice sought
Discussion
I sold a pair of boots on eBay in April 2011.
These were boots my wife bought from a shop in 2005/6 and never wore so were sold as "new with tags".
The buyer paid, the boots were dispatched and the buyer recieved them on 25th April.
The buyer is now saying they they are uncomfortable (to the point of blisters) and that their further investigation lead them them to be fakes and are demanding a full refund.
They have gone further and advised me of a Trading Standards case number and have said that they have sent me a letter (recorded delivery, as yet not recieved) demanding a full refund within 28 days under the SOGA 1979.
To this point I have;
a) said that I do not believe them to be fake
b) that I will happily help the Trading Standards with any investigation
c) that I do believe them to be; i) as described ii) of satisfactory quality and iii) fit for purpose.
d) I have also advised the buyer that the fact that they "do not fit" you or you "simply don't want them" are not rights afforded to them under the SOGA
e) and said upon receipt of the boots (on or before 25th April 2011) they had the opportunity to inspect the items and could compare them with another pair which were available to them (even though there may well be differences between adult and non adult boots) and had they not been satisified that they were the genuine article then raise this issue within a reasonable time.
Is there anything else I should do to protect myself or does anyone have any usefull counsel?
These were boots my wife bought from a shop in 2005/6 and never wore so were sold as "new with tags".
The buyer paid, the boots were dispatched and the buyer recieved them on 25th April.
The buyer is now saying they they are uncomfortable (to the point of blisters) and that their further investigation lead them them to be fakes and are demanding a full refund.
They have gone further and advised me of a Trading Standards case number and have said that they have sent me a letter (recorded delivery, as yet not recieved) demanding a full refund within 28 days under the SOGA 1979.
To this point I have;
a) said that I do not believe them to be fake
b) that I will happily help the Trading Standards with any investigation
c) that I do believe them to be; i) as described ii) of satisfactory quality and iii) fit for purpose.
d) I have also advised the buyer that the fact that they "do not fit" you or you "simply don't want them" are not rights afforded to them under the SOGA
e) and said upon receipt of the boots (on or before 25th April 2011) they had the opportunity to inspect the items and could compare them with another pair which were available to them (even though there may well be differences between adult and non adult boots) and had they not been satisified that they were the genuine article then raise this issue within a reasonable time.
Is there anything else I should do to protect myself or does anyone have any usefull counsel?
No they won't automatically get a refund from Paypal.
They will for non-delivery reports etc.
Your best bet - wait for Trading Standards.
Then point them at the retailer where you bought them from - ideally with a receipt, if not possibly an old credit card statement showing where you bought them.
They can then chase them if they are indeed "fake" goods.
They will for non-delivery reports etc.
Your best bet - wait for Trading Standards.
Then point them at the retailer where you bought them from - ideally with a receipt, if not possibly an old credit card statement showing where you bought them.
They can then chase them if they are indeed "fake" goods.
WRT to SOGA and ebay
"One of your statutory rights is that any item you buy from a retailer or manufacturer must be of satisfactory quality. However if you buy from an individual in the context of a private sale, this statutory right does not apply and you will have no legal redress if the item is unsatisfactory."
"One of your statutory rights is that any item you buy from a retailer or manufacturer must be of satisfactory quality. However if you buy from an individual in the context of a private sale, this statutory right does not apply and you will have no legal redress if the item is unsatisfactory."
cuneus said:
Why ?
1/ Because it is PayPal. Use Google, here is one result: http://www.paypalsucks.com/2/ I sold something, it was received by the buyer and they left me positive feedback. Two months later, they open a dispute for non-delivery! An open and shut case, I thought. No. PayPal refunded their money (which meant they got the goods for free).
If they say it wasn't as described, PayPal will just ask them to return the goods. Once they can prove its been returned, they'll get a refund, even if it was as described. You can't avoid this.
If they push the "it's a fake" line, PayPal will ask for proof it's fake (usually - take it to the manufacturer or their stores, get a letter on headed paper confirming it's a fake), then PayPal will refund them and wont ask them to return the goods. Expect a mild rapping of the nuckles from eBay as well.
If they push the "it's a fake" line, PayPal will ask for proof it's fake (usually - take it to the manufacturer or their stores, get a letter on headed paper confirming it's a fake), then PayPal will refund them and wont ask them to return the goods. Expect a mild rapping of the nuckles from eBay as well.
JumboBeef said:
1/ Because it is PayPal. Use Google, here is one result: http://www.paypalsucks.com/
2/ I sold something, it was received by the buyer and they left me positive feedback. Two months later, they open a dispute for non-delivery! An open and shut case, I thought. No. PayPal refunded their money (which meant they got the goods for free).
1. Yes I can use Google2/ I sold something, it was received by the buyer and they left me positive feedback. Two months later, they open a dispute for non-delivery! An open and shut case, I thought. No. PayPal refunded their money (which meant they got the goods for free).
2. What has this go to do with the OP's problem ?
cuneus said:
WRT to SOGA and ebay
"One of your statutory rights is that any item you buy from a retailer or manufacturer must be of satisfactory quality. However if you buy from an individual in the context of a private sale, this statutory right does not apply and you will have no legal redress if the item is unsatisfactory."
WRT ? Not sure I follow the abbreviation there"One of your statutory rights is that any item you buy from a retailer or manufacturer must be of satisfactory quality. However if you buy from an individual in the context of a private sale, this statutory right does not apply and you will have no legal redress if the item is unsatisfactory."
Sales Of Goods Act not applicable to private sales - as others have stated. Surprised if Trading Standards will get involved unless buyer has convinced them that you're a trader and it's not a private sale.
Your only obligation to the buyer is that the goods should be as described - as a private sale it's their responsibility to satisy themselves that the goods are of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, not yours.
If the boots are fakes, however, then you're in breach of contract on the grounds that you've missrepresented the goods - even if you acted in good faith and believed them to be genuine.
No experience or knowledge of how Paypul acts in disputes, apart from anecdotes I've heard which suggest that they almost invariably side with the buyer irrespective of the facts. But if you cancel whatever credit card / direct debit that PayPal can use to uplift your money, then presumably they can't take it and will have to make their case before a County Court if they want to get the money back off you.
Your only obligation to the buyer is that the goods should be as described - as a private sale it's their responsibility to satisy themselves that the goods are of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, not yours.
If the boots are fakes, however, then you're in breach of contract on the grounds that you've missrepresented the goods - even if you acted in good faith and believed them to be genuine.
No experience or knowledge of how Paypul acts in disputes, apart from anecdotes I've heard which suggest that they almost invariably side with the buyer irrespective of the facts. But if you cancel whatever credit card / direct debit that PayPal can use to uplift your money, then presumably they can't take it and will have to make their case before a County Court if they want to get the money back off you.
Edited by Seight_Returns on Friday 3rd June 15:16
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff