eBay dispute - advice sought

[Seight_Returns]

philmots said:

Also... If you cancel or move cards away from your paypal account that you use for funding etc, they will just take it from your paypal balance and leave it at say, £-49.99 or similar. You'll be in debt to them.

And that matters why ?

Can PayPal dob you in to Experian and the other credit rating agencies and bugger up your credit rating ? If so that would be a concern, otherwise the only way they're going to recover this debt is by taking you to court and arguing that you owe them this money because they gave it to a third party who claimed that you were in breach of contract with - even though you'd provided them with clear evidence that you weren't - that would be interested.

[catman]

My take on this is that they are trying to panic you into refunding the money.

Obviously, Trading Standards wouldn't get involved, unless your buyer lied to them about your trading status.

I would forget about this, until you receive something official through the post!

Tim

[DaveH23]

Hypothetical question but what if the buyer does have a fake copy of the same boots and sends them to TS claiming thats what the OP sold him?

Would TS be in touch to confirm they were the same boots sold or take the buyers word for it?

Apart from this I dont see how the buyer has a leg to stand on.

[loggan]

The buyer doesn t have a leg to stand on, the strange thing is why he wanted boots?

[Marcellus]

Seight_Returns said:

Then (the unfairness of Paypal aside) you have nothing to fear unless the goods were not as described.

Have they told you what's lead them to beleive the boots are fakes ?

They had concerns as they wore them and they were very uncomfortable alledgely causing blisters.

philmots said:

Also... If you cancel or move cards away from your paypal account that you use for funding etc, they will just take it from your paypal balance and leave it at say, £-49.99 or similar. You'll be in debt to them.

This will be done, thanks for the heads up on that.

catman said:

My take on this is that they are trying to panic you into refunding the money.

Obviously, Trading Standards wouldn't get involved, unless your buyer lied to them about your trading status.

I would forget about this, until you receive something official through the post!

Tim

My thoughts entirely, I have said I will await contact from the Trading Standard before I comment further and that I consider the only credible judge of whether they are counterfeit or not is an independant examination by the orginal manufacturer who I assume will be contacted by the Trading standards and if they deem them to be counterfeit then I owe the buyer an apology and will of course refund them.

loggan said:

The buyer doesn t have a leg to stand on, the strange thing is why he wanted boots?

lol... horse riding jodpur boots!!

[Seight_Returns]

Marcellus said:

Seight_Returns said:

Then (the unfairness of Paypal aside)
Have they told you what's lead them to beleive the boots are fakes ?

They had concerns as they wore them and they were very uncomfortable alledgely causing blisters.

FFS - is that it ?

The pair of shoes I'm wearing right now are uncomfortable and have given me a blister - that's because I'm a tight git and got them in an outlet store and they're half a size too small for me - not becuase they're bleedin' fake.

They're trying it on - big time.

[jazzyjeff]

Seight_Returns said:

Marcellus said:

Seight_Returns said:

Then (the unfairness of Paypal aside)
Have they told you what's lead them to beleive the boots are fakes ?

They had concerns as they wore them and they were very uncomfortable alledgely causing blisters.

FFS - is that it ?

The pair of shoes I'm wearing right now are uncomfortable and have given me a blister - that's because I'm a tight git and got them in an outlet store and they're half a size too small for me - not becuase they're bleedin' fake.

They're trying it on - big time.

Indeed.

Maybe the buyer has fake feet?

[TonyRPH]

Marcellus said:

d) I have also advised the buyer that the fact that they "do not fit" you or you "simply don't want them" are not rights afforded to them under the SOGA

OP I'm willing to bet you have hit the nail right on the head here.

A few months back I sold a home cinema A/V receiver, and I was careful to place the exact specification in my listing (from the manufacturer's website).

A few days after delivery, I got a bit of a snotty email with threats to leave me neg. feedback etc. etc. because the (4 year old) item had a slight scratch on it (which was as described).

It's is my belief that this item was bought in error (they thought it had HDMI inputs I think), so they were trying to goad me into issuing a refund and take it back (which I didn't).

It sounds to me as though you have a similar situation.

Just stick to your guns - and if Paypal do issue a refund, you will be able to lodge an appeal.

[Jujuuk68]

You didnt specify in the thread if the buyer was male or female.

If male, and a cross dresser, then frankly the chances of them turning up in person to a court hearing for cross (dressed) examination in front of the judge are slim.

[Red Devil]

Marcellus said:

lol... horse riding jodpur boots!!

Anyone with half a brain will know that footwear moulds itself to the shape of the foot. Even a s/h pair of shoes which have been worn for any length of time will develop a 'set'.

Of necessity riding boots are a much tighter fit than a pair of walking shoes. Unless the purchaser works for a living in the equestrian world they are unlikely to be worn every day so it would take quite some time for the boots to remould themselves to the different contours of someone else's foot. In the meantime they would be pretty much guaranteed to cause discomfort. Blistering doesn't surprise me at all. Anyone who spends much time around horses would have enough nous not to even contemplate buying s/h boots sight unseen off fleabay and yet expect them to fit perfectly from day one.

The buyer does not seem to understand the principle of caveat emptor. Unfortunately that doesn't hold any weight with Paypal, so be prepared for a lot of wasted time in reaching a satisfactory conclusion.

Edited by Red Devil on Sunday 5th June 04:46

[Mojooo]

DaveH23 said:

Hypothetical question but what if the buyer does have a fake copy of the same boots and sends them to TS claiming thats what the OP sold him?

Would TS be in touch to confirm they were the same boots sold or take the buyers word for it?

Apart from this I dont see how the buyer has a leg to stand on.

If they wanted to do an investigatio nthey would probably try and buy another pair from the trader so they can prove that a) the trader had the boots and b) sold them

Obviously a moot point in this case.

The buyer in this case could possibly ask TS to get the manufacturer to confirm if the goods are fake but unless TS wnat to do an investigation themselves they prob wont get invovled. They can advise the buyer on his rights were the goods to be fake but that could only result in small claims anyway - which is prob unlikly for a nubmer of reasons - not leasyt because Paypal will prob resolve it first for better or worse.

[bluetone]

Marcellus said:

The buyer is now saying they they are uncomfortable (to the point of blisters) and that their further investigation lead them them to be fakes and are demanding a full refund.

Odd isn't it, that the buyer has apparently 'realised they're fakes' only after realising they don't fit?

You have to laugh.

[Marcellus]

Completely agree with you all!!

This has gone back and forth for the past few days now.

The buyer has said she's spoken to the manufacturer who are "very interested in the case", to which I've stated that if the manufacturer examines the boots and then says they're counterfeit I will of course give a full refund.

Yet the buyer is now saying regardless of anything else they require a full refund or will take Civil Action against me.

[Oggs]

Tell her to go #### herself

[JustinP1]

Marcellus said:

Completely agree with you all!!

This has gone back and forth for the past few days now.

The buyer has said she's spoken to the manufacturer who are "very interested in the case", to which I've stated that if the manufacturer examines the boots and then says they're counterfeit I will of course give a full refund.

Yet the buyer is now saying regardless of anything else they require a full refund or will take Civil Action against me.

Well, you've smoked them out now.

As you said, this is nothing to do with being fake or not. They don't fit, and they have buyer's remorse.

They will not take you to court. Hell, I am willing to bet that they haven't contacted Trading Standards or the manufacturer at all, this is a bluff.

My reply would be simply that as you are certain that they are not fake you are not going to give a refund on the basis that they are. So confident are you on this that you are more than happy to demonstrate to a court that they are clearly genuine.

[Durzel]

Even with the weight of this in your favour I still think you could be on a sticky wicket. The buyer only needs to provide a pair of counterfeit boots for inspection, and you're sunk. Similarly they could just as easily dispute it with eBay/Paypal as "goods significantly not as described" and claim that they received a completely different pair of boots to the ones shown in the advert and you'll be left trying to prove otherwise.

eBay/Paypal really do err on the side of the buyer and you have to jump through hoops as a seller to not get shafted by them.

[STURBO]

The only way to sell on ebay is to be pragmatic and accept that you will have to give a lot of refunds for spurious reasons.

All the power is with the buyers. In the end it builds an overall buyer community that is less wary of getting ripped off, so it's good for everyone in the long run. Obviously in this instance the OP is getting a bad deal.

If I were the OP, I would ask for the goods to be returned, then refund and re list and not get in a flap about it.

If you don't like that then don't use ebay as you will continue to be disappointed by such behavior.

[cuneus]

STURBO said:

The only way to sell on ebay is to be pragmatic and accept that you will have to give a lot of refunds for spurious reasons.

All the power is with the buyers. In the end it builds an overall buyer community that is less wary of getting ripped off, so it's good for everyone in the long run. Obviously in this instance the OP is getting a bad deal.

If I were the OP, I would ask for the goods to be returned, then refund and re list and not get in a flap about it.

If you don't like that then don't use ebay as you will continue to be disappointed by such behavior.

Bad advice

IF Paypal decides in the buyers favour (and that is not certain) takes the buyer to court - it doesn't cost much and gives great satisfaction

OP - Don't suppose you have kept or can downloaded bank statements back that far ?

[herewego]

Are leather boots kept in a paper/card box not going to shrink and distort somewhat through a period such as five years? I think you could be asking for trouble trying to sell them untried.

[zaphod42]

herewego said:

Are leather boots kept in a paper/card box not going to shrink and distort somewhat through a period such as five years? I think you could be asking for trouble trying to sell them untried.

But surely boots, like clothes are not a "standard size" and subject to perception of fit? Providing they are genuine, and the size the box states, and the age stated, I don't see the issue here. Other than a naive buyer thinking that boots/shoes are a good thing to buy without trying them on first.

Oh, and guess what, most retailers will let you return boots/shoes after purchase, but only if you have worn them inside...

My view, ignore all correspondence unless something official, eg, trading standards/court.