eBay dispute - advice sought
Discussion
Quote EbayCustomer :-
"I went to X tack shop and tried a pair of PoshBoots" size 7, they fitted but I didn't want to pay the £lots for them. I saw a pair on Ebay at £lots/2 so I bought them. I tried them on and walked around for a few days, they were still tight and didn't fit like the ones in the tack shop - so they must be forgeries."
Let's hope the horse has the brains in the relationship.
"I went to X tack shop and tried a pair of PoshBoots" size 7, they fitted but I didn't want to pay the £lots for them. I saw a pair on Ebay at £lots/2 so I bought them. I tried them on and walked around for a few days, they were still tight and didn't fit like the ones in the tack shop - so they must be forgeries."
Let's hope the horse has the brains in the relationship.
Answer three questions:
1) How much were the boots sold for?
2) How much is your time worth per hour?
3) How long have you spent on trying to defend yourself to this clearly mad person?
If the answer to 2) multiplied by the answer to 3) is greater than 1) then you really should just issue the refund and move on. Don't get emotionally involved or act "on principle". Life is too short to worry over something so trivial!
1) How much were the boots sold for?
2) How much is your time worth per hour?
3) How long have you spent on trying to defend yourself to this clearly mad person?
If the answer to 2) multiplied by the answer to 3) is greater than 1) then you really should just issue the refund and move on. Don't get emotionally involved or act "on principle". Life is too short to worry over something so trivial!
Paypal aren't guaranteed to refund at all.
About 6 years ago I bought an Ipod on there for about 90 quid.....guy with good feedback.
When the ipod arrived, it was a shell with some awful Japanese mp3 software on it, so I gave the bad feedback and reported the case. (By now he'd got loads of bad feedback for these dodgy Ipods).
The seller was given 30 days to respond to my 'dispute'....didn't hear anything and went to Cuba. Upon our return, we had an email from paypal saying the seller (despite god knows how much bad feedback) was denying the item was fake, could I send the product to a particular address along with a manufacturer letter saying they agreed the product was fake....WITHIN 7 days....Because I was on hols, this time had expired, Paypal closed the case.
I was fuming, their rules are all geared against the person ripped off.
About 6 years ago I bought an Ipod on there for about 90 quid.....guy with good feedback.
When the ipod arrived, it was a shell with some awful Japanese mp3 software on it, so I gave the bad feedback and reported the case. (By now he'd got loads of bad feedback for these dodgy Ipods).
The seller was given 30 days to respond to my 'dispute'....didn't hear anything and went to Cuba. Upon our return, we had an email from paypal saying the seller (despite god knows how much bad feedback) was denying the item was fake, could I send the product to a particular address along with a manufacturer letter saying they agreed the product was fake....WITHIN 7 days....Because I was on hols, this time had expired, Paypal closed the case.
I was fuming, their rules are all geared against the person ripped off.
This could be about to get even more interesting!!
I have this morning spoken to the Manufacturers who have said;
"Based on the photos supplied by Mrs XYZ, we have no qualms about confirming these are Genuine Boots, we're just about to email Mrs XYZ to confirm this and we will of course copy you in"
What do we reckon her next tactic will be?
I have this morning spoken to the Manufacturers who have said;
"Based on the photos supplied by Mrs XYZ, we have no qualms about confirming these are Genuine Boots, we're just about to email Mrs XYZ to confirm this and we will of course copy you in"
What do we reckon her next tactic will be?
Marcellus said:
This could be about to get even more interesting!!
I have this morning spoken to the Manufacturers who have said;
"Based on the photos supplied by Mrs XYZ, we have no qualms about confirming these are Genuine Boots, we're just about to email Mrs XYZ to confirm this and we will of course copy you in"
What do we reckon her next tactic will be?
If she doesn't know you are being copied in, my guess is she will BS you some more.I have this morning spoken to the Manufacturers who have said;
"Based on the photos supplied by Mrs XYZ, we have no qualms about confirming these are Genuine Boots, we're just about to email Mrs XYZ to confirm this and we will of course copy you in"
What do we reckon her next tactic will be?
If she does, all will go quiet.
I thought this would get even more fun!!
I have now received this message from the buyer;
"I will not drop this case against you. I think this is a regular side line for you. I wonder what other copy goods you sell. It is people like you that give genuine sellers a really bad name. Copy goods, no matter how good the copy are ruining retailers."
She has not accepted the boot manufacturers oppinion which was based upon the photos she sent them so is sending them the boots for furthe examination.
I have already said to her that if her allegations are proven then I will refund the postage to the manufacturers.
Have we now entered the grounds of libel laws?
I have now received this message from the buyer;
"I will not drop this case against you. I think this is a regular side line for you. I wonder what other copy goods you sell. It is people like you that give genuine sellers a really bad name. Copy goods, no matter how good the copy are ruining retailers."
She has not accepted the boot manufacturers oppinion which was based upon the photos she sent them so is sending them the boots for furthe examination.
I have already said to her that if her allegations are proven then I will refund the postage to the manufacturers.
Have we now entered the grounds of libel laws?
Marcellus said:
I thought this would get even more fun!!
I have now received this message from the buyer;
"I will not drop this case against you. I think this is a regular side line for you. I wonder what other copy goods you sell. It is people like you that give genuine sellers a really bad name. Copy goods, no matter how good the copy are ruining retailers."
She has not accepted the boot manufacturers oppinion which was based upon the photos she sent them so is sending them the boots for furthe examination.
I have already said to her that if her allegations are proven then I will refund the postage to the manufacturers.
Have we now entered the grounds of libel laws?
Not until she prints that and defames you.I have now received this message from the buyer;
"I will not drop this case against you. I think this is a regular side line for you. I wonder what other copy goods you sell. It is people like you that give genuine sellers a really bad name. Copy goods, no matter how good the copy are ruining retailers."
She has not accepted the boot manufacturers oppinion which was based upon the photos she sent them so is sending them the boots for furthe examination.
I have already said to her that if her allegations are proven then I will refund the postage to the manufacturers.
Have we now entered the grounds of libel laws?
Doh... you've done that.
Seriously though, you can and should just ignore her. She is not going to take you to court.
Failing that, just but her straight in a two line email:
I am an honest, private seller who had an unwanted pair of boots which you bought. If you want to make totally untrue slurs about me, then please do it in court so that there can be witnesses. However, in the meantime, please refrain from further contact.
Marcellus said:
I thought this would get even more fun!!
I have now received this message from the buyer;
"I will not drop this case against you. I think this is a regular side line for you. I wonder what other copy goods you sell. It is people like you that give genuine sellers a really bad name. Copy goods, no matter how good the copy are ruining retailers."
She has not accepted the boot manufacturers oppinion which was based upon the photos she sent them so is sending them the boots for furthe examination.
I have already said to her that if her allegations are proven then I will refund the postage to the manufacturers.
Have we now entered the grounds of libel laws?
Sue her for defamation of character?I have now received this message from the buyer;
"I will not drop this case against you. I think this is a regular side line for you. I wonder what other copy goods you sell. It is people like you that give genuine sellers a really bad name. Copy goods, no matter how good the copy are ruining retailers."
She has not accepted the boot manufacturers oppinion which was based upon the photos she sent them so is sending them the boots for furthe examination.
I have already said to her that if her allegations are proven then I will refund the postage to the manufacturers.
Have we now entered the grounds of libel laws?
I sell a bit on eBay.
The most obvious points already made in this thread are that SoGA does not apply to private sales. Trading Standards won't be interested either. It would be an offence to sell fake goods as a private seller (although the penalties aren't as severe as doing so as a business). But then you're pretty sure you have a rock solid defence there too (ie they aren't fake).
You would be bound by any returns policy which you published in the listing, but you wouldn't have to have one at all. Chances are you didn't.
So legally it appears you're fine.
If they haven't opened a Paypal claim then they may be out of time - it's 45 days from payment (mid-April to June). Credit card charge-backs (if they funded the Paypal purchase with a credit card) can happen a little later down the line, and those can go either way.
I'd politely ignore them. I can see no benefit in continuing communication.
If you were trading in the course of a business, as I do, then you would simply have to accept the refund and return and get one with it, and that might be what the buyer is relying on. However, purchases from individuals have nothing like the protection that purchases from businesses have, which is why it's well worth checking who you're buying from on eBay
The most obvious points already made in this thread are that SoGA does not apply to private sales. Trading Standards won't be interested either. It would be an offence to sell fake goods as a private seller (although the penalties aren't as severe as doing so as a business). But then you're pretty sure you have a rock solid defence there too (ie they aren't fake).
You would be bound by any returns policy which you published in the listing, but you wouldn't have to have one at all. Chances are you didn't.
So legally it appears you're fine.
If they haven't opened a Paypal claim then they may be out of time - it's 45 days from payment (mid-April to June). Credit card charge-backs (if they funded the Paypal purchase with a credit card) can happen a little later down the line, and those can go either way.
I'd politely ignore them. I can see no benefit in continuing communication.
If you were trading in the course of a business, as I do, then you would simply have to accept the refund and return and get one with it, and that might be what the buyer is relying on. However, purchases from individuals have nothing like the protection that purchases from businesses have, which is why it's well worth checking who you're buying from on eBay
Cheers 7db.... the sale date was 17th April, the buyer paid on the 20th April and raised the case on the 2nd June 2011 is the 45days from date of sale or date of payment?
My returns policy was;
"The seller will not accept returns for this item.
Sellers may be required to accept returns for items that are not as described."
which are the standard eBay ones.
As per below, the OEM has now looked at the photos supplied by the buyer and said they believe them to be genuine but the buyer isn't accepting that and sending the boots to them for further examination. I honestly believe that this examination will result in the Manufacturer saying "yes they're genuine" but the buyer is still saying even if they do she won't accept that and has started proceedings against me in the civil courts.
I am going to ignore her on eBay resolution centre for now, but how can I further protect myself against paypal paying out?
My returns policy was;
"The seller will not accept returns for this item.
Sellers may be required to accept returns for items that are not as described."
which are the standard eBay ones.
As per below, the OEM has now looked at the photos supplied by the buyer and said they believe them to be genuine but the buyer isn't accepting that and sending the boots to them for further examination. I honestly believe that this examination will result in the Manufacturer saying "yes they're genuine" but the buyer is still saying even if they do she won't accept that and has started proceedings against me in the civil courts.
I am going to ignore her on eBay resolution centre for now, but how can I further protect myself against paypal paying out?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff