eBay dispute - advice sought

[JustinP1]

Marcellus said:

but the buyer is still saying even if they do she won't accept that and has started proceedings against me in the civil courts.

She can do that, but in effect that is not going to be a scary proposition as it sounds.

You receive a letter, you get to respond, that in short, you have proof of purchase and the manufacturer has said they are real and the claim is spurious.

No judge is going to allow that to get to a hearing. And she won't waste money on it either.

Don't stress about it.

[Adz The Rat]

She is clearly a bit mental.

[Marcellus]

and it takes another turn!!

Now that the Manufacturer has said "yes they look like genuine boots" the buyer isn't satisfied with that so asked to send them to the manufacturer for examination to which they agreed.

She has now discovered that the boots are actually manufactured in the US so has demanded that the manufacturer sends them there for examination which the manufacturer has agreed to.

Now for the twist; surprise surprise she's changed the basis of her complaint against me to "they're not of satisfactory quality" needless to say that I've responded that if they are New and if they are Genuine then there's no grounds for complaint.

Is there anything else I should be saying?

[bluetone]

You could try telling her to get a fking life.

[catman]

In my opinion, in all cases of this type, the biggest mistake that you can (and are) making, is to continue to have contact with her.

Just ignore her until you get court papers. Do continue to print her nutty letters for our amusement though!

Tim

[Big_Dog]

I have been a shopkeeper for a while now. Even within that role I would politely hold the door open.
She hasnt a leg to stand on. Can you not just send her a link to some shoe/boot stretchers on eBay.
I am enjoying the fact she is still digging despite already being down the hole.
Keep us informed as to how this plays out please.

[streaky]

Marcellus said:

Now that the Manufacturer has said "yes they look like genuine boots" the buyer isn't satisfied with that so asked to send them to the manufacturer for examination to which they agreed.

Do you have that directly from the manufacturer, or from/via her? And in what form?

She has now discovered that the boots are actually manufactured in the US so has demanded that the manufacturer sends them there for examination which the manufacturer has agreed to.

Ditto.

Marcellus said:

Is there anything else I should be saying?

Nothing that wouldn't get you arrested.

Streaky

[Marcellus]

streaky said:

Marcellus said:

Now that the Manufacturer has said "yes they look like genuine boots" the buyer isn't satisfied with that so asked to send them to the manufacturer for examination to which they agreed.

Do you have that directly from the manufacturer, or from/via her? And in what form?

Yes directly from the manufacturer both verbally and by email

streaky said:

Marcellus said:

She has now discovered that the boots are actually manufactured in the US so has demanded that the manufacturer sends them there for examination which the manufacturer has agreed to.

Ditto.

No, I was intending to wait a few days and then speak to the manufacturer again to see if they had received the boots, what their opinion was on their authenticity and then ask them what their next stage was.

Marcellus said:

Is there anything else I should be saying?

Nothing that wouldn't get you arrested.

Streaky

But is there any way how I can ensure that Paypal don't issue a refund from my account in the interim?

[streaky]

Marcellus said:

streaky said:

Marcellus said:

Now that the Manufacturer has said "yes they look like genuine boots" the buyer isn't satisfied with that so asked to send them to the manufacturer for examination to which they agreed.

Do you have that directly from the manufacturer, or from/via her? And in what form?

Yes directly from the manufacturer both verbally and by email

streaky said:

Marcellus said:

She has now discovered that the boots are actually manufactured in the US so has demanded that the manufacturer sends them there for examination which the manufacturer has agreed to.

Ditto.

No, I was intending to wait a few days and then speak to the manufacturer again to see if they had received the boots, what their opinion was on their authenticity and then ask them what their next stage was.

streaky said:

Marcellus said:

Is there anything else I should be saying?

Nothing that wouldn't get you arrested.

Streaky

But is there any way how I can ensure that Paypal don't issue a refund from my account in the interim?

I'd wait more than a "few days" if the boots really have been sent to the USA ... they might have gone by surface mail. I am very surprised that the manufacturer has given in to her demands. I wonder who's paying for the shipping. I wonder too, whether the UK office is actually uncertain as to the authenticity of the boots.

In my limited experience of Paypal refunds, and drawing on accounts on here, I would say there is little or nothing you can do that will be effective and/or have no implications later.

Streaky

PS - the only experience I have of someone claiming a refund from me on eBay was for a MF camera body (sold for ~£180) that they claimed not to have received - despite (a) me having (online) a Royal Mail Special Delivery receipt signed with what appeared to be the buyer's name and (b) them posting positive feedback on the same date as the receipt. PP ignored/dismissed my evidence, refunded the buyer and declined to enter into any further correspondence. I spoke to one of my ex-BiB friends about reporting this as a crime. His advice was that it would be unlikely to be investigated as the value was low, two forces would be involved, and PayPal was notorious for this and singularly unhelpful to the police in such instances (he was a frequent trader on eBay, with a few bad experiences) - S

[Seight_Returns]

I'd agree that continuing the contact with this person is perpetuating the nonsence - however ignoring her complaints doesn't make you look good if it does end up in court and ignoring communication will certainly be cited as part of any claim either to the County Court or to PayPal - you need to be able to show that you've acted reasonably.

As above - as a private seller you have no obligation to ensure that the goods are "fit for purpose" or of "satisfactory quality", they merely have to be as described. Saying this to her will just antagonise her though.

The fact that she's disputing the UK Agent's opinion that the goods are genuine makes her increasingly sound like she's off her head.

I think you're playing it spot on. If you reply politely but briefly to each message stating that you beleive the goods to be genuine and as described, but that if she can demonstrate otherwise then you'll happily refund her, then she really has nowhere to go.

[Carlton Banks]

This is why I never sell to idiots on ebay using paypal.

Cash on pickup or nothing else.

Sick and tired of paypal not being fair regarding dispute resolution.

However, I always purchase using paypal, especially fake leather boots from a pulp fiction character.

[TonyRPH]

I would simply visit her house, and 'put the boot in'

that one hasn't been done already has it?

[Marcellus]

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

[Jakg]

Marcellus said:

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

Thats BRILLIANT news!

She'll have no luck proving their fake, however she could still claim "not as described" and PayPal would just ask her to return them no matter what you say.

Now they have the boots, she's wasteing days to send them back...

[zaphod42]

Marcellus said:

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

Interesting. I assume she meant liaise.

I didn't think Trading Standards got quite so involved in individual ebay cases, to be honest, but looking on here:
http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=...

It looks like they will target sole traders / car boot fraud. So maybe they would take a second look at an individual case before suggesting your buyer is mad.

[maser_spyder]

zaphod42 said:

Marcellus said:

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

Interesting. I assume she meant liaise.

I didn't think Trading Standards got quite so involved in individual ebay cases, to be honest, but looking on here:
http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=...

It looks like they will target sole traders / car boot fraud. So maybe they would take a second look at an individual case before suggesting your buyer is mad.

Missing out the blindingly obvious that 'Trading Standards' deals with Traders, they technically have nothing to do with members of the public making private sales.

[zaphod42]

maser_spyder said:

Missing out the blindingly obvious that 'Trading Standards' deals with Traders, they technically have nothing to do with members of the public making private sales.

Yes, but it might tie them up in an initial investigation for a day or so. After all, they investigate car boot sales - how does that differ from eBay?
(I am on the side of the seller btw, but the world is a mad place and NYCC are a strange bunch)

[maser_spyder]

zaphod42 said:

maser_spyder said:

Missing out the blindingly obvious that 'Trading Standards' deals with Traders, they technically have nothing to do with members of the public making private sales.

Yes, but it might tie them up in an initial investigation for a day or so. After all, they investigate car boot sales - how does that differ from eBay?
(I am on the side of the seller btw, but the world is a mad place and NYCC are a strange bunch)

Car boot sale is an organised sale, with people paying to be there. You can also prove that some sellers are actually 'traders' I.e. Dealing in quantities of the same item, repeat sales, etc.

A member of the public selling a one-off item that they've owned for five years does not, under any circumstances, come under 'trade'.

[zaphod42]

maser_spyder said:

Car boot sale is an organised sale, with people paying to be there. You can also prove that some sellers are actually 'traders' I.e. Dealing in quantities of the same item, repeat sales, etc.

A member of the public selling a one-off item that they've owned for five years does not, under any circumstances, come under 'trade'.

Maser, with respect I'm agreeing with you and the seller in this case. What I'm saying is NYCC trading standards might spend a day looking at this and following due process before dismissing (rightly).

On a different topic, are all car boot sales de facto trade sales? Where does one draw the line?

[oobster]

Marcellus said:

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

Did you respond to this message? If so, what did you say?