eBay dispute - advice sought

[streaky]

zaphod42 said:

Marcellus said:

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

Interesting. I assume she meant liaise.

It's a Freudian Slip. She's just making enough 'rope' to hang herself.

Streaky

[ofcorsa]

Marcellus said:

So today's update is that I received a very simple message from the buyer;

"To whom it may concern, For information North Yorkshire Trading standards have taken possession of the boots And will lianas with the Ariat Europe, America, the shop you claim to have bought them from and yourself. I will leave it in their capable hands"

Sounds to me like she has given up and is just trying to save face

[Marcellus]

oobster said:

Did you respond to this message? If so, what did you say?

I did along the lines of;
Dear Mrs H, thank you for your update could you please give me the name of the Trading Standards Case Officer who is invesgigating your allegations"

So far no response... I'll be on the phone to NYCC this morning.

[jazzyjeff]

streaky said:

It's a Freudian Slip. She's just making enough 'rope' to hang herself.

Streaky

good one!

[maser_spyder]

zaphod42 said:

maser_spyder said:

Car boot sale is an organised sale, with people paying to be there. You can also prove that some sellers are actually 'traders' I.e. Dealing in quantities of the same item, repeat sales, etc.

A member of the public selling a one-off item that they've owned for five years does not, under any circumstances, come under 'trade'.

Maser, with respect I'm agreeing with you and the seller in this case. What I'm saying is NYCC trading standards might spend a day looking at this and following due process before dismissing (rightly).

On a different topic, are all car boot sales de facto trade sales? Where does one draw the line?

I know, was just clarifying. They have to look if asked, but they have no jurisdiction on a private sale.

For the car boot sellers, it's quite a hard thing to prove somebody is a 'trader', they basically need evidence that 'stock' is being purchased for resale. So one seller who regularly sells the same things, and restocks (normally new goods) is considered a trader (whether properly registered or not). A car boot seller clearing out their attic is obviously not.

The medium for the sale is irrelevant, but the nature of the trading is.

Trading Standards get involved in car boots to weed out the chaps regularly selling knocked off 'Nescafe' by the hundred weight (hence obviously trading). They would (should) not be interested, or have any jurisdiction on a private sale, anywhere.

[cuneus]

You could go for a pre-emptive strike with Trading standards

e.g. print out of ebay history

evidence of employment

[Carlton Banks]

I am surprised you're bothering to waste your time dealing with her.

As long as you can protect your paypal 'monies' then let her continue with her ridiculous line of enquiries!

[zaphod42]

Carlton Banks said:

As long as you can protect your paypal 'monies' then let her continue with her ridiculous line of enquiries!

Challenge is, how do you do that? Even if you withdraw all funds, if they do a recharge it will be a -ve balance and pursued as a debt by PayPal?

[Seight_Returns]

zaphod42 said:

Challenge is, how do you do that? Even if you withdraw all funds, if they do a recharge it will be a -ve balance and pursued as a debt by PayPal?

So what ? There's a difference between someone saying that you owe them money - and actually owing them money.

If Paypal choose to persue this "debt" they will untimately have to justify why they've debited the OP's account for no reason - they won't be able to do this.

A financial institution taking your money for no reason most certainly WOULD be grounds for complaint to Trading Standards (and the Banking Ombudsman).

[zaphod42]

Seight_Returns said:

So what ? There's a difference between someone saying that you owe them money - and actually owing them money.

If Paypal choose to persue this "debt" they will untimately have to justify why they've debited the OP's account for no reason - they won't be able to do this.

A financial institution taking your money for no reason most certainly WOULD be grounds for complaint to Trading Standards (and the Banking Ombudsman).

Whilst I applaud your theory, the reality is it's easier to talk to Trading Standards / real people than argue with Paypal. Oh, and they will be able to debit the account and pursue a debt if they have gone through a dispute process with the buyer - it's part of the terms when you use Paypal/eBay.

It's also there to protect people from unscrupulous sellers who would sell a high value forged item (let's say a Prada handbag), receive the funds, empty the account and vanish? (Which doesn't seem to be the case in this instance)

[Marcellus]

To update; I've just spoken to a very nice man at Trading Standards who is actually "investigating" the complaint.

He basically outlined that they are "duty bound" to investigate any reports of counterfeiting which is why he's doing anything. He has the boots and is about the package them up and send them to the Manufacturer for their report. If that report comes back that they're genuine then the buyer doesn't have any claim against me however if it comes back that they're counterfeit then I would be required to give a refund but then could, if I so choose pursue the retailer for selling counterfeit goods.

All in all as I say a very nice man, seems reasonable and did say don't worry about anything until the manufacturer reports back.

(now for the slightly naughty bit :blush: just because she has pissed me off so much I have asked the buyer to confirm that she will accept the view of The Trading STandards and if they say they're genuine then she will stop this nonsense and give me an apology.... sorry I know all advice was not to engage her in dialogue but I couldn't resist.. if I had a salt pot I would be looking for those blisters she alledgedly has!)

[streaky]

OP - from what you posted yesterday, I thought the manufacturer already had the boots and had said they were genuine. I'm confused.



BTW, why is there this discussion of 'car boot sales'? I though these were people boots that were sold.



Streaky

[7db]

Marcellus said:

(now for the slightly naughty bit :blush: just because she has pissed me off so much I have asked the buyer to confirm that she will accept the view of The Trading STandards and if they say they're genuine then she will stop this nonsense and give me an apology.... sorry I know all advice was not to engage her in dialogue but I couldn't resist.. if I had a salt pot I would be looking for those blisters she alledgedly has!)

Oh and it was all going so well and you fell off the wagon... :-)

Good luck with TS. I've found them to be very reasonable types here.

[don'tbesilly]

Apologies if I missed it, but what sort of money are we talking about here, how much did the boots sell for?

This woman seems to be going to extraordinary lengths to get her money back, and drag you through the mud!

Is she an ex and you don't know it?
Did you smash her back doors in and leave the next morning without saying goodbye?
Is she the mother of a lovechild that you don't know about?

She sounds a thoroughly vindictive person for some reason,is she really this demented?

[maser_spyder]

don'tbesilly said:

Apologies if I missed it, but what sort of money are we talking about here, how much did the boots sell for?

This woman seems to be going to extraordinary lengths to get her money back, and drag you through the mud!

Is she an ex and you don't know it?
Did you smash her back doors in and leave the next morning without saying goodbye?
Is she the mother of a lovechild that you don't know about?

She sounds a thoroughly vindictive person for some reason,is she really this demented?

This sounds like a man who's never dealt with the public....

[inthedark]

Hang on I thought they were being returned to the USA

quote:
She has now discovered that the boots are actually manufactured in the US so has demanded that the manufacturer sends them there for examination which the manufacturer has agreed to.

and yet she appears to have retained possession and passed them to TS

[oobster]

maser_spyder said:

don'tbesilly said:

Apologies if I missed it, but what sort of money are we talking about here, how much did the boots sell for?

This woman seems to be going to extraordinary lengths to get her money back, and drag you through the mud!

Is she an ex and you don't know it?
Did you smash her back doors in and leave the next morning without saying goodbye?
Is she the mother of a lovechild that you don't know about?

She sounds a thoroughly vindictive person for some reason,is she really this demented?

This sounds like a man who's never dealt with the public....

Or a man who has never dealt with a woman!

[Adrian W]

Unfortunatly there are some very dodgy people on Ebay, recently I thought I had sold an old video recorder on Ebay, the bloke who won the auction said he would collect and pay cash, he turned up looked at it (it was exactly as described) then tried to haggle, I refused and he left without the Video, next thig I find, he complained to Ebay, sayimg I was a crook and left me the worst feedback he could, Remember I hadn't sold him anything. Ebay investigated, found in my favour, and refunded the fees, But they refused to delete the bad feedback saying the buyer has to do this. I then get a message from Ebay saying that my feedback score is low and they are limiting my account. I called them and eventually got someone who could barely speak english, tells me they are in Singapore and that these are thier rules and she cannot do anything.

I don't use Ebay anymore.

[Marcellus]

don'tbesilly said:

Apologies if I missed it, but what sort of money are we talking about here, how much did the boots sell for?

This woman seems to be going to extraordinary lengths to get her money back, and drag you through the mud!

Is she an ex and you don't know it?
Did you smash her back doors in and leave the next morning without saying goodbye?
Is she the mother of a lovechild that you don't know about?

She sounds a thoroughly vindictive person for some reason,is she really this demented?

To me it's not about the money (£50) it's more about being called an unscrupulous criminal, being a liar, a thoroughly nasty peice of work, being some sort of mastermind behind a massive counterfeiting ring, being held responsible for the demise of genuine manufacturers and the sort of seller who gives eBay a bad reputation to whom someone needs to stand up against to ensure that I can't con other poor unsuspecting members of the public.

streaky said:

OP - from what you posted yesterday, I thought the manufacturer already had the boots and had said they were genuine. I'm confused.

Sorry, just to clarify;
The manufacturer was in receipt of photos sent by the buyer who said "anyone who knows anything can instantly tell they're fake and these photos prove it".

Obviously the manufacturer knows nothing and has less than half a brain as they said "from these photos they look genuine to us" so the buyer then demanded they be sent to the US for another opinion (she obviously thinks that those in the US have more than half a brain).

Then as opposed to sending them to the Manufacturer gave them to the Trading Standards Officer.

[don'tbesilly]

oobster said:

Or a man who has never dealt with a woman!

I beg to differ, although my unfortunate experiences were not about a pair of £50.00 boots, hence the list, which was by no means exhaustive

Enough - back to the bunnyboiler!