How to unSORN ?

[V8LM]

mattmurdock said:

Lodging £500,000 with the Accountant General of the Senior Courts is one of the stated exemptions to having motor insurance, and therefore also an exemption to CI

Off thread sorry, but how does this work? What happens when you choose to stop self-insuring? Do you get £500,000 back, less, or more?

[mattmurdock]

Goodwin said:

Point 1. If you buy private the previous owner may have SORN'ed the car due to no insurance as discussed above.

Point 2. Doesn't this make a complete farce of the whole point of SORN. If some dodgy scrote buys a car the seller says it sold and the SORN is cancelled so scrote goes around without SORN marker, insurance or tax. Just because you buy the car doesn't mean its drivable. (sorry don't mean to shoot the messenger)

In that situation, said scrote will show as no Tax on ANPR, and as soon as the V5 is processed by DVLA will be in line for CI penalty (assuming scrote does not either a) declare SORN or b) buy tax and insurance).

[mattmurdock]

V8LM said:

Off thread sorry, but how does this work? What happens when you choose to stop self-insuring? Do you get £500,000 back, less, or more?

You should get it all back - it is effectively a deposit to be used should you have an accident, so if you don't have an accident you can ask for it all back as soon as you are insured by someone else.

[V8LM]

mattmurdock said:

V8LM said:

Off thread sorry, but how does this work? What happens when you choose to stop self-insuring? Do you get £500,000 back, less, or more?

You should get it all back - it is effectively a deposit to be used should you have an accident, so if you don't have an accident you can ask for it all back as soon as you are insured by someone else.

Thanks. If you could get back some of the interest too it may be worth doing it; assuming it is oneself that is insured and not a single car as you can only drive one car at a time.

[Noger]

mattmurdock said:

You should get it all back - it is effectively a deposit to be used should you have an accident, so if you don't have an accident you can ask for it all back as soon as you are insured by someone else.

Sadly, "accidents" don't work like that. The longest period that a claim can be brought is 21 years (3 years after the 18th birthday of a baby in the car you hit).

Which is why the act says "who has deposited and keeps deposited". Much the same principle as insurers in run-off. We can't just shut up the shop doors and bugger off

I also see no evidence anywhere that this £500,000 is used to fund any claim, and for all practical purposes I have heard of anyone using this. It is very poor VFM considering you liability for PI is unlimited and even Insurers re-insure their risks.

[Noger]

Richard C said:

By declaring a car SORN one has told DVLA that one has made a statutory off road notification. That is all one legally needs to make it. It does not legally require DVLA to accept it or acknowldege it for a SORN to be valid.

Ah, this is probably where our understanding (please don't take that to mean I understand, I think we all agree the DVLA probably don't either !) diverges.

The regulations go to great lengths to talk about informing the secretary of state in the "prescribed form". Exemptions to 144A for SORN require "...and in such manner as may be prescribed."

My view would be that using V890 when you already have VED, or not returning the disk with V14 would not be in the prescribed form. Similarly, if you did not sign and date the form. You have not declared SORN for the purposes of the RTA.

Quite what happens if the online SORN wants you to return the disk and you don't is a different matter. As I have said before, driving with SORN is not an offence (although you are quite likely to get pulled by ANPR) only driving without Tax and Insurance is. I can't see them being able to claim SORN is a promise of future conduct.

Possibly they could send a reminder about the disk, under the "manner prescribed" banner.

I have a vague notion about requesting a duplicate disk and your obligations if you find the old one.

Whilst I didn't particularly like it (I have zero tax car, so returning it is a pain as I get no refund), the idea that you HAVE to return tax is the only way I could get my head round SORN/CIE. Which is why when the online SORN used to prevent you doing it unless you only had <1 month to run made sense. But now it doesn't !

[Vipers]

For god's sake, someone ask DVLA all these questions and post the answers, simplistic no!

[saaby93]

Vipers said:

For god's sake, someone ask DVLA all these questions and post the answers, simplistic no!

It's been done but remember DVLA are learning too

[saaby93]

Noger said:

The regulations go to great lengths to talk about informing the secretary of state in the "prescribed form". Exemptions to 144A for SORN require "...and in such manner as may be prescribed."

My view would be that using V890 when you already have VED, or not returning the disk with V14 would not be in the prescribed form. Similarly, if you did not sign and date the form. You have not declared SORN for the purposes of the RTA.

Does this help?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/sched...

legislation said:

The Manner in which declaration is to be made and particulars furnished
2.—(1) For the purposes of this Schedule the required declaration may be made and the required particulars furnished in such way as the Secretary of State may accept including—

(a)in writing on a form specified by the Secretary of State;
(b)orally by telephone to a person authorised by the Secretary of State; or
(c)by electronic means in a form specified by the Secretary of State.

[mattmurdock]

Noger said:

Sadly, "accidents" don't work like that. The longest period that a claim can be brought is 21 years (3 years after the 18th birthday of a baby in the car you hit).

Which is why the act says "who has deposited and keeps deposited". Much the same principle as insurers in run-off. We can't just shut up the shop doors and bugger off

I also see no evidence anywhere that this £500,000 is used to fund any claim, and for all practical purposes I have heard of anyone using this. It is very poor VFM considering you liability for PI is unlimited and even Insurers re-insure their risks.

Understand completely - all the £500,000 deposit allows you to do is avoid prosecution for driving a motor vehicle without insurance, it does not exempt you from any liability for accidents caused, and would not prevent a claim after such time as you removed the deposit. As soon as the deposit is withdrawn, you have to take out insurance with someone else if you wish to continue driving. Any claims made later that relate to events during the period it was deposited you would be completely personally liable for, as there was no insurance in place at the time.

So I agree, it is a very poor way of avoiding taking out insurance. But there is nothing to stop you taking that money back at any time, provided you subsequently take out insurance should you wish to drive a car (or re-deposit the £500,000).

[andy-xr]

I dont know about anyone else, but trying to SORN my car by phone or web just gets technical errors, been that way since Monday as well