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Opulent

4,313 posts

65 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Wings said:
Inconsiderate, driving without due care and attention, this following event slightly to the extreme, but how courts view animals and inconsiderate road users.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/850486-firefighters-si...
What an absolute joke.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

725 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Wings said:
Inconsiderate, driving without due care and attention, this following event slightly to the extreme, but how courts view animals and inconsiderate road users.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/850486-firefighters-si...
Holy cow (excuse the pun), that's a little harsh on the fireman.

And he's just rung me to tell me he has an interview under caution tomorrow at 5pm. He's in full time education; will he be entitled to a duty solicitor?

mdk1

141 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
King Fisher said:
Holy cow (excuse the pun), that's a little harsh on the fireman.

And he's just rung me to tell me he has an interview under caution tomorrow at 5pm. He's in full time education; will he be entitled to a duty solicitor?
Can i suggest that you post this over on
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?http://forums....

As an interview under caution, sounds like they are going to stich him up.

Spanna

2,134 posts

61 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
How many riders were there?

I've had a similar situation where I was going round a slight bend on a country road, leisurely at about 25, when 3 horses emerge, all being ridden. I was flagged down, as your son was, to abuse. There was plenty of room, but clearly I should not be on the road in my motor vehicle. As two approached, still mounted, I thought I'd best get out of the situation, these animals can be unpredictable and I didn't fancy 3 v 1 if something happened. (Insurance/police not physically hehe)

It just so happened that these people had come from the yard where my mother was manager at that time and that's where I was headed.

What I don't understand is the aggression these types of people have. If your horse is unable to stay calm on roads in simple situations, please refrain from putting yourselves in such a situation.

Opulent

4,313 posts

65 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Spanna said:
What I don't understand is the aggression these types of people have. If your horse is unable to stay calm on roads in simple situations, please refrain from putting yourselves in such a situation.
bangheadbanghead

WHY do you not understand this? It's their RIGHT, you common oik! wink

Although I completely agree - legal it may be, sensible it ain't...
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Hooli

27,648 posts

85 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
There is something about owning a pet too big to keep at home that gives fools an inflated sense of importance.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

725 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Spanna said:
How many riders were there?

I've had a similar situation where I was going round a slight bend on a country road, leisurely at about 25, when 3 horses emerge, all being ridden. I was flagged down, as your son was, to abuse. There was plenty of room, but clearly I should not be on the road in my motor vehicle. As two approached, still mounted, I thought I'd best get out of the situation, these animals can be unpredictable and I didn't fancy 3 v 1 if something happened. (Insurance/police not physically hehe)

It just so happened that these people had come from the yard where my mother was manager at that time and that's where I was headed.

What I don't understand is the aggression these types of people have. If your horse is unable to stay calm on roads in simple situations, please refrain from putting yourselves in such a situation.
There were 3 of them.

10 Pence Short

32,730 posts

102 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Sounds like he's been lined up for Inconsiderate at least, though the best advice would be for him to ensure there's a solicitor present. The reason for this is that the Solicitor can ask the Police, before the interview, what the basis for the it is and what they're looking for, then advise their client (in private) with this in mind beforehand. To the best of my knowledge a defendant on their own can't.


doogz

22,973 posts

72 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Hooli said:
There is something about owning a pet too big to keep at home that gives fools an inflated sense of importance.
What if you keep them at home? Are they still fools?

And do you have any other pearls of wisdom to share? Or would you rather continue spouting utter bks? biglaugh

King Fisher

Original Poster:

725 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
10 Pence Short said:
Sounds like he's been lined up for Inconsiderate at least, though the best advice would be for him to ensure there's a solicitor present. The reason for this is that the Solicitor can ask the Police, before the interview, what the basis for the it is and what they're looking for, then advise their client (in private) with this in mind beforehand. To the best of my knowledge a defendant on their own can't.
Will he be offered a duty solicitor? I do have a solicitor friend who may be able to help if not. Needless to say he's worried about points and fines etc.

10 Pence Short

32,730 posts

102 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
King Fisher said:
10 Pence Short said:
Sounds like he's been lined up for Inconsiderate at least, though the best advice would be for him to ensure there's a solicitor present. The reason for this is that the Solicitor can ask the Police, before the interview, what the basis for the it is and what they're looking for, then advise their client (in private) with this in mind beforehand. To the best of my knowledge a defendant on their own can't.
Will he be offered a duty solicitor? I do have a solicitor friend who may be able to help if not. Needless to say he's worried about points and fines etc.
Yes, he should be offered, as he has a right to one. He should let the Police know in advance though, to make sure one is available at that time.

Another alternative is to find a local solicitor who deals with Magistrate cases such as motoring and see if they'll sit in the first interview for free- mine did when I was in such a situation. Again, that will need to be set up with the Officer conducting the interview.

Bear in mind the Police will not mind changing the time and date of the interview to accommodate the presence of a solicitor.

Also bear in mind, no matter what the accused may think of the whole situation, it is better for them to keep quiet and say the bare minimum to show they were being reasonable (or more to the point, 'careful and competent') than open his mouth and say something on tape he may prefer not to have read out in court.

Snowboy

8,015 posts

36 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Opulent said:
Wings said:
Inconsiderate, driving without due care and attention, this following event slightly to the extreme, but how courts view animals and inconsiderate road users.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/850486-firefighters-si...
What an absolute joke.
I get the feeling we're not in possession of all the fact on this story.

If there's a herd of cows on the road then it's a bit stupid to make them stampede.
That goes for a normal car with a horn as well as a fire engine.

Yes, it sucks that the cows were stopping the fire engine get to the fire, but I'd think that fire engine drivers should realise the extra chaos that would ensue from stampeding the cows.

We don't know how quickly the fire engine came up on the cows, were they hidden behind a bend, or did the fire engine have plenty of time to see them before blaring the siren.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

725 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
10 Pence Short said:
Yes, he should be offered, as he has a right to one. He should let the Police know in advance though, to make sure one is available at that time.

Another alternative is to find a local solicitor who deals with Magistrate cases such as motoring and see if they'll sit in the first interview for free- mine did when I was in such a situation. Again, that will need to be set up with the Officer conducting the interview.

Bear in mind the Police will not mind changing the time and date of the interview to accommodate the presence of a solicitor.

Also bear in mind, no matter what the accused may think of the whole situation, it is better for them to keep quiet and say the bare minimum to show they were being reasonable (or more to the point, 'careful and competent') than open his mouth and say something on tape he may prefer not to have read out in court.
He's already written a statement and posted it along with his NIP. The statement was checked over by a law graduate before being sent. I could post it up here?

10 Pence Short

32,730 posts

102 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
King Fisher said:
The statement was checked over by a law graduate before being sent. I could post it up here?
1) No, don't post it here under any circumstances.

2) Law graduate doesn't mean anything. My OH is an Oxford educated commercial lawyer- she knows less about traffic law than I do!!

3) No, don't post it here under any circumstances.

Bluebarge

2,796 posts

63 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Snowboy said:
I get the feeling we're not in possession of all the fact on this story.

If there's a herd of cows on the road then it's a bit stupid to make them stampede.
That goes for a normal car with a horn as well as a fire engine.

Yes, it sucks that the cows were stopping the fire engine get to the fire, but I'd think that fire engine drivers should realise the extra chaos that would ensue from stampeding the cows.

We don't know how quickly the fire engine came up on the cows, were they hidden behind a bend, or did the fire engine have plenty of time to see them before blaring the siren.
IIRC, the fire engine was stationary, waiting for the cows to clear the road, which they were doing, albeit at "cow speed"; this was not quick enough for the firefighter sat waiting, so he put the siren on, causing the stampede in which the farmer was trampled to death. So, the law got this one right, I reckon.

Opulent

4,313 posts

65 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Bluebarge said:
IIRC, the fire engine was stationary, waiting for the cows to clear the road, which they were doing, albeit at "cow speed"; this was not quick enough for the firefighter sat waiting, so he put the siren on, causing the stampede in which the farmer was trampled to death. So, the law got this one right, I reckon.
That changes my view somewhat.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

725 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
10 Pence Short said:
1) No, don't post it here under any circumstances.

2) Law graduate doesn't mean anything. My OH is an Oxford educated commercial lawyer- she knows less about traffic law than I do!!

3) No, don't post it here under any circumstances.
Ok. I have managed to get him in contact with a solicitor, so he should be ok. His statement, in my view, is pretty good; it states what happened, that he was removing himself at a safe speed from what he perceived to be a dangerous situation to himself and his vehicle.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

725 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
mdk1 said:
Can i suggest that you post this over on
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?http://forums....

As an interview under caution, sounds like they are going to stich him up.
Posted over there. :-)

cptsideways

10,641 posts

137 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
My wife does the horses - from what I've gathered....


When you see two horses abreast, its often one sensible well trained horse & one young or new to the road & possibly a bit scared. The idea is the stable steady one stops the other one from getting scared being pack animals they react to what others do) Treat them like learner drivers I suppose.


Two horses abreast means you have to give them a wider berth, again this a good thing, as some drivers will try & squeeze past (bad idea) Also from a visibilty point of view being abreast means the riders can see round corners & you can see them earlier too. (Same as limit points for you advanced drivers out there)


If a horse looks jumpy or scared, I'll often stop & switch off the car, let them past & carry on. There's also the benefit that most of the horses ridden round my way have totty onboard yum

Fer

6,934 posts

165 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
cptsideways said:
If a horse looks jumpy or scared, I'll often stop & switch off the car, let them past & carry on. There's also the benefit that most of the horses ridden round my way have totty onboard yum
I find this makes them harder to overtake. I tried in my Westfield to coast past with the engine off, but the restart didn't really help much.

My gripe around my way is when you see one rider leading one or two other polo ponies. I find it hard to believe that they are in control in that case.
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