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cptsideways

10,863 posts

140 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Fer said:
My gripe around my way is when you see one rider leading one or two other polo ponies. I find it hard to believe that they are in control in that case.
A led horse is often safer on the road especially when amongst other sensible ones. Its a way of training them to have some road sense, you dont want to be riding a scared one!

As mentioned above its the "pack animal behavior" that you are modifying with training.

Opulent

4,843 posts

68 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
cptsideways said:
A led horse is often safer on the road especially when amongst other sensible ones. Its a way of training them to have some road sense, you dont want to be riding a scared one!

As mentioned above its the "pack animal behavior" that you are modifying with training.
Does this also apply the other way around - if one horse gets spooked and starts playing up, would the others be likely to follow suit?

Wings

4,499 posts

103 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
King Fisher said:
Ok. I have managed to get him in contact with a solicitor, so he should be ok. His statement, in my view, is pretty good; it states what happened, that he was removing himself at a safe speed from what he perceived to be a dangerous situation to himself and his vehicle.
I would never use a duty solicitor, in fact if i were in your son's position, i would ask his mum to attend at the police station.

You son needs to make it clear that at the time of the incident, your son’s.his sole concerns were for the well being of both the horses and riders.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

729 posts

67 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Wings said:
I would never use a duty solicitor, in fact if i were in your son's position, i would ask his mum to attend at the police station.

You son needs to make it clear that at the time of the incident, your son’s.his sole concerns were for the well being of both the horses and riders.
Can he get a solicitor of his choice for free?

saaby93

13,123 posts

66 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
Horse was probably spooked anyway by being cajoled towards a strange burbling thing without legs
Driver did well to get out of there safely and with minimal fuss
Rider error?


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Pontoneer

3,464 posts

74 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th September 2011 quote quote all
The son is probably being interviewed regarding the bunch of equestrians indulging in threatening behaviour and failing to keep their animals under proper control whist on the public highway

King Fisher

Original Poster:

729 posts

67 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
The son is probably being interviewed regarding the bunch of equestrians indulging in threatening behaviour and failing to keep their animals under proper control whist on the public highway
I'd like to think that, but seeing as he didn't report it, there were no other witnesses to report it on his behalf, and also the fact he's been told by one of the rider's friends on Facebook that 'he's going to get points and a fine', I'm pretty sure he's the suspect!

grahamw48

9,918 posts

126 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
Find the best solicitor in your (and my) area who specialises in motoring offences.

There was a guy who I used in the past, but possibly retired now.

Funnily enough, the company was called 'Drivers'.

A good solicitor will cost less than your increased insurance premium, and no points either.

I speak from both personal experience and that of a few friends. smile

Believe me, the Police do NOT have it all their own way.

Oh, and one of those friends is now a magistrate...on that bench. hehe

Edited by grahamw48 on Wednesday 28th September 00:32

mph1977

8,173 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
Wings said:
I would never use a duty solicitor, in fact if i were in your son's position, i would ask his mum to attend at the police station.

You son needs to make it clear that at the time of the incident, your son’s.his sole concerns were for the well being of both the horses and riders.
That's an interesting statement, unless you happen to have an established relationship with a firm of criminal solicitors .... as long as you are actually getting a 'real' brief ( i.e. an actual Solicitor or a suitably experienced FILEX) not some office boy...

hi mum is not going to get access to him (unless he shouldn't be allowed out on his own - even then, are vulnerable adults allowed family members as App Adult? or do they get a rota App adult) or a disclosure is she ?

mph1977

8,173 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
King Fisher said:
10 Pence Short said:
Sounds like he's been lined up for Inconsiderate at least, though the best advice would be for him to ensure there's a solicitor present. The reason for this is that the Solicitor can ask the Police, before the interview, what the basis for the it is and what they're looking for, then advise their client (in private) with this in mind beforehand. To the best of my knowledge a defendant on their own can't.
Will he be offered a duty solicitor? I do have a solicitor friend who may be able to help if not. Needless to say he's worried about points and fines etc.
is your solicitor friend someone who has current experience in criminal and police station work ? if not - who does the solicitor friend recommend otherwise I'd stick to the duty as s/he will be up to speed with how to get the best outcome from a PACE interview

perhaps 10Ps, our resident BiB and Briefs would comment further...

Pontoneer

3,464 posts

74 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
King Fisher said:
he's been told by one of the rider's friends on Facebook that 'he's going to get points and a fine'
If such an assertion has indeed been published , it would be worth printing this off .

Should the matter progress as far as court , the judge/magistrate would probably not be too impressed by the pursuer presuming what his judgement might be nor bragging about it in 'social media' .

Such 'bragging' might also be construed as threatening behaviour and taken to exemplify the rider's manner and conduct on the day - " goes to character , M'lud " .

UncleRic

911 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
King Fisher said:
he's been told by one of the rider's friends on Facebook that 'he's going to get points and a fine'
If such an assertion has indeed been published , it would be worth printing this off .

Should the matter progress as far as court , the judge/magistrate would probably not be too impressed by the pursuer presuming what his judgement might be nor bragging about it in 'social media' .

Such 'bragging' might also be construed as threatening behaviour and taken to exemplify the rider's manner and conduct on the day - " goes to character , M'lud " .
Sounds reasonable to me.. unless he's written anything relating to the incident that he shouldn't disclose

Derek Smith

20,931 posts

136 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
I've talked to my wife about the incident with the Datsun I mentioned earlier. We did, evidently, know the owner, another woman. She was stationary in a queue of traffic, which had stopped because the rider, around 14 years, was having difficulty. One car driver at the front of the queue lost patience and drove off rather wildly and this spooked the horse. It became more difficult to control but carried on moving. When it got to the little Datsun it slipped on the road a bit and then let fly with its rear hoofs.

The driver was taken to hospital (possibly shock but perhaps the glass).

The police did report it but did not prosecute the rider. Sueing the rider was not felt viable as there was a dispute at to who was at afault.

My wife remembers that the rider had hired the horse. She had, it seemed, embroidered her experience and was given a horse that required more horse sense to manage than she had.

It seems that I said at the time that it was the same defence available to the rider as would be available to someone who hired a car which had a mechanical failure. I am not so sure of myself now but it sounds reasonable at first glance.

I just saw the Datsun 120 at the side of the road when walking my dog. The offide door and rear 3/4 was considerably distorted, the glass broken. What I do remember wondering was how the 'accident' occurred. I couldn't figure it out. The fuss in the local press was over three of four similar incidents each where the (reportedly) totally innocent victim had to claim on their own car insurance for repair/replacement. I would assume that the 120 was written off.

ExChrispy Porker

12,282 posts

116 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
mph1977 said:
is your solicitor friend someone who has current experience in criminal and police station work ? if not - who does the solicitor friend recommend otherwise I'd stick to the duty as s/he will be up to speed with how to get the best outcome from a PACE interview

perhaps 10Ps, our resident BiB and Briefs would comment further...
The duty solicitor will be a local solicitor experienced in traffic and criminal law and fully au fait with procedure in a police station. This would be my choice.

mph1977

8,173 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
ExChrispy Porker said:
The duty solicitor will be a local solicitor experienced in traffic and criminal law and fully au fait with procedure in a police station. This would be my choice.
That fits in with the advice I've been given by every BiB (serving or ex) and every brief I've ever spoken to, unless you have your 'own'(preferred and knows you rap sheet as well as you do ) criminal brief go with the duty, you can always get a subject specialist criminal brief should you get charged.

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

105 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
ExChrispy Porker said:
The duty solicitor will be a local solicitor experienced in traffic and criminal law and fully au fait with procedure in a police station. This would be my choice.
There are pros and cons (no pun intended, honest) to it.

A duty solicitor will more than likely be very familiar with the officers conducting the interview. This can be a negative though, in that they are sometimes (of course, not always) more willing to pull into line rather than go out on a limb to work totally in the client's best interests.

There will of course be good and bad examples of duty solicitors. For an initial interview, I'd go with the duty one and decide what to do after that.

Hooli

28,547 posts

88 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
doogz said:
Hooli said:
There is something about owning a pet too big to keep at home that gives fools an inflated sense of importance.
What if you keep them at home? Are they still fools?

And do you have any other pearls of wisdom to share? Or would you rather continue spouting utter bks? biglaugh
I'll just keep spouting thanks smile

It's true though for a proportion of the horse owning people it's an excuse to act like a tosser & piss people off by pretending to be more important. I knew as many people like that as not back when I rode.

King Fisher

Original Poster:

729 posts

67 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
Ok guys, he's got a duty of his choice organised for tomorrow (they were recommended by my solicitor, as my solicitor admits he is a bit rusty with traffic law). The owner of the firm took quite an interest in my son's car, its age, etc, and agreed that, by the nature of being a classic TVR, it is a loud vehicle. He also agreed that my son hasn't made too much of a mistake by making a statement of events, especially whilst it was still fresh in his mind. I suppose there'll be different views on all aspects of this; all I can do now is hope no further action is taken after his interview.

As for Facebook, he's deleted the people involved, and any posts and messages related to the matter went with it. Nevermind.

ExChrispy Porker

12,282 posts

116 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
10 Pence Short said:
There are pros and cons (no pun intended, honest) to it.

A duty solicitor will more than likely be very familiar with the officers conducting the interview. This can be a negative though, in that they are sometimes (of course, not always) more willing to pull into line rather than go out on a limb to work totally in the client's best interests.

There will of course be good and bad examples of duty solicitors. For an initial interview, I'd go with the duty one and decide what to do after that.
Not in my experience. Have you got any evidence of this cosy relationship?

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

105 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th September 2011 quote quote all
ExChrispy Porker said:
Not in my experience. Have you got any evidence of this cosy relationship?
I've seen it first hand both in the Police station and Magistrates. Maybe it's the experience of seeing things in a very small town, where the journeymen solicitors, seeing the same old Officers and Magistrates days in day out, feel the need to avoid rocking the boat. Small town politics infects pretty much every aspect of life up here.

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