Horses On The Roads - What's the Law?
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
I've got to say that I've not noticed any desire not to rock the boat since the imposition of PACE. Before then if a brief was a bit anti he was never called.
The dog earred type written list of phone numbers, with the Sgts thumb over the one he didn't want called 
Those were the days ( apparently).
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81874915/
This is why horses shouldn't be on the road.
I remember when I was doing a driving course at work, with an advanced driver providing the tuition. I was driving through the countryside, approaching a junction I wanted to turn right into, off the single track road I was on. There was a horse on my offside. I went to slowly cruise past it at about what I would have previously considered an acceptable speed, around 12-13mph. It was a wide-ish track, I was in a relatively quiet diesel Focus and the horse was accompanied and looked fairly calm. Anyway, as I went in the instructor told me to slow down, so I duly applied the brakes and kept to the nearside to stay as far as possible from the horse. In spite of the extremely slow speed I was travelling when I passed the horse (about 5mph) it suddenly went wild, rearing up backwards and pitching towards the bonnet of the car. Stupid beast. But it made me appreciate you can never second guess a dumb animal. Though I sometimes wonder if it was infact my extremely slow pace that spooked it!
As I turned into the junction a Nissan GT-R was pulling out, and heading towards the horse making a great din with it's exhausts. I dread to think what the horse thought of that!
This is why horses shouldn't be on the road.
I remember when I was doing a driving course at work, with an advanced driver providing the tuition. I was driving through the countryside, approaching a junction I wanted to turn right into, off the single track road I was on. There was a horse on my offside. I went to slowly cruise past it at about what I would have previously considered an acceptable speed, around 12-13mph. It was a wide-ish track, I was in a relatively quiet diesel Focus and the horse was accompanied and looked fairly calm. Anyway, as I went in the instructor told me to slow down, so I duly applied the brakes and kept to the nearside to stay as far as possible from the horse. In spite of the extremely slow speed I was travelling when I passed the horse (about 5mph) it suddenly went wild, rearing up backwards and pitching towards the bonnet of the car. Stupid beast. But it made me appreciate you can never second guess a dumb animal. Though I sometimes wonder if it was infact my extremely slow pace that spooked it!
As I turned into the junction a Nissan GT-R was pulling out, and heading towards the horse making a great din with it's exhausts. I dread to think what the horse thought of that!
Its got to be a legal grey area, as long as a car's exhaust isn't illegally loud or it hasn't got one of those screamer pipe things people fit to turbo cars around where I live, the onus of responsibilty has to be on the rider. I use to ride horses all the time when I was younger but never in or near traffic, few horses I've ever seen were safe in such conditions and if the horse panics or bolts for any reason you're basically just a passenger...not nice.
Hopefully this'll get thrown out if it even gets to court
Hopefully this'll get thrown out if it even gets to court
Hooli said:
It's true though for a proportion of the large Porsche/RR/BMW/Audi/Mercedes horse owning people it's an excuse to act like a tosser & piss people off by pretending to be more important. I knew as many people like that as not back when I last looked in GG (no pun intended) I rode.
EFAThere are plenty of horse owning folk around my way and I never come into conflict with them. I simply demonstrate care and consideration and don't act like I own the road.
I'm not suggesting anyone else on here does anyhting different but in my experience those who have trouble tend to be those who are a little lacking in there consideration of others.
I'm not suggesting anyone else on here does anyhting different but in my experience those who have trouble tend to be those who are a little lacking in there consideration of others.
I'm really sorry, I'm probably going to get accused of flaming, being a troll and all sorts of things here, but this just made my blood boil more than anything I've ever read on here, and thats saying something!
Firstly, I am a 'Pistonhead' through and through - I have a car and a motorbike, I love both, I love driving both, frequently with a degree of, erm, enthusiasm. However, I also ride horses......
And I should say nothing of what I'm about to say is in reference to the OP's son. From what we have heard, he did everything right and this particular bunch of riders were being prize t**ts.
[quote]He has nothing to worry about. What the fk would the horsey ponces do if (god forbid) a motorcycle came past, or a tractor, or maybe a helicopter flew over at low altitude? Or a dog barked at them? Or a crow-scarer went off whilst they were using their right to go wherever they liked? "Everybody be quiet because I am riding Trojan/Monty/Wallpaper Paste and nobody is allowed to scare my horse"
[/quote]
If a loud vehicle comes past, we do everything in our power to retain control of our animals. Some vehicles are loud, that's life, and we have to deal with it. However, a motorbike is much louder at 10,000rpm than it is at idle. So it's rider can minimise any risk to us or themselves by slowing right down and keeping the revs as low as possible. Better still if we're coming from opposite directions and it's safe to, pull in and switch off for a minute or so. You don't HAVE to, there's no law requiring this, it's just basic politeness and consideration for others. In the same way, I'll make sure I get the horse clear of you as quickly as I can so that you can continue. We have to deal with unavoidable loud noises all the time - it's the completely avoidable ones that seem senseless.
[quote]As long as his car was legal, I would drive backwards and forwards all day long, at the speed limit, in second gear - exercising my right to use my fully legal vehicle on the road.
[/quote]
Why, just why?! Of course you have the legal right to do so, but what would be the point?! Technically on a horse I can ride two abreast at walk on a narrow road and make you wait, but I won't. I'll trot on to get to a safe passing point as quickly as I can and get out of your way safely. The quieter you are, the quicker I'm going to be able to achieve that - we all win :-)
[quote]In fact, fk em. Horseboxes hold up hundreds of people every day, because they don't want to scare their precious cargo. I don't want to be stuck behind you breathing your filthy diesel smoke and being held up because you can't handle the size of the wagon. I'll overtake, and if that scares your horses, that's YOUR tough st. Grr. Horses. Bloody pie-pets.
[/quote]
Horse boxes drive in the manner they do for very very good reasons, but principally because you have a living breathing creature in the back who, if it falls over and breaks its leg, is likely to have to be put down. While I'm sure there are some c**p box drivers, it's usually NOTHING to do with not being able to handle the size of the vehicle, and everything to do with not inadvertently killing the cargo. Terribly sorry if waiting behind one frustrates you though. Next time you're on a crowded bus and standing (Though I appreciate as a member of this forum it's unlikely to be anytime soon) get the driver to throw it around like Michael Schumacher and see how much you like it ;-)
I just don't understand this hatred of horses on the road. Yes, you may get held up occasionally, but is it really too much to ask for 2 minutes out of your journey and a bit of consideration?! And I know it's a cliche, and it gets trotted out every time this argument comes up, but horses were using the roads for a long time before cars arrived.......it's drivers that are the guests really ;-)
Apologies for the rant.
I feel MUCH better now!
Firstly, I am a 'Pistonhead' through and through - I have a car and a motorbike, I love both, I love driving both, frequently with a degree of, erm, enthusiasm. However, I also ride horses......
And I should say nothing of what I'm about to say is in reference to the OP's son. From what we have heard, he did everything right and this particular bunch of riders were being prize t**ts.
[quote]He has nothing to worry about. What the fk would the horsey ponces do if (god forbid) a motorcycle came past, or a tractor, or maybe a helicopter flew over at low altitude? Or a dog barked at them? Or a crow-scarer went off whilst they were using their right to go wherever they liked? "Everybody be quiet because I am riding Trojan/Monty/Wallpaper Paste and nobody is allowed to scare my horse"
[/quote]
If a loud vehicle comes past, we do everything in our power to retain control of our animals. Some vehicles are loud, that's life, and we have to deal with it. However, a motorbike is much louder at 10,000rpm than it is at idle. So it's rider can minimise any risk to us or themselves by slowing right down and keeping the revs as low as possible. Better still if we're coming from opposite directions and it's safe to, pull in and switch off for a minute or so. You don't HAVE to, there's no law requiring this, it's just basic politeness and consideration for others. In the same way, I'll make sure I get the horse clear of you as quickly as I can so that you can continue. We have to deal with unavoidable loud noises all the time - it's the completely avoidable ones that seem senseless.
[quote]As long as his car was legal, I would drive backwards and forwards all day long, at the speed limit, in second gear - exercising my right to use my fully legal vehicle on the road.
[/quote]
Why, just why?! Of course you have the legal right to do so, but what would be the point?! Technically on a horse I can ride two abreast at walk on a narrow road and make you wait, but I won't. I'll trot on to get to a safe passing point as quickly as I can and get out of your way safely. The quieter you are, the quicker I'm going to be able to achieve that - we all win :-)
[quote]In fact, fk em. Horseboxes hold up hundreds of people every day, because they don't want to scare their precious cargo. I don't want to be stuck behind you breathing your filthy diesel smoke and being held up because you can't handle the size of the wagon. I'll overtake, and if that scares your horses, that's YOUR tough st. Grr. Horses. Bloody pie-pets.
[/quote]
Horse boxes drive in the manner they do for very very good reasons, but principally because you have a living breathing creature in the back who, if it falls over and breaks its leg, is likely to have to be put down. While I'm sure there are some c**p box drivers, it's usually NOTHING to do with not being able to handle the size of the vehicle, and everything to do with not inadvertently killing the cargo. Terribly sorry if waiting behind one frustrates you though. Next time you're on a crowded bus and standing (Though I appreciate as a member of this forum it's unlikely to be anytime soon) get the driver to throw it around like Michael Schumacher and see how much you like it ;-)
I just don't understand this hatred of horses on the road. Yes, you may get held up occasionally, but is it really too much to ask for 2 minutes out of your journey and a bit of consideration?! And I know it's a cliche, and it gets trotted out every time this argument comes up, but horses were using the roads for a long time before cars arrived.......it's drivers that are the guests really ;-)
Apologies for the rant.
I feel MUCH better now!
In the story a bit above about the horse that went nuts I wonder if the slow driving was the cause.
I have heard from horsey friends* that driving too slow past a horse is just as bad as too quickly – it unnerves them.
It's like a large predator creeping up on them.
The advice I was given when I drove a loud car was to slow down to 15-20, drop the clutch and take the foot off the gas and just coat past quietly.
Obviously there's some times this can't be done, but it's worked alright for me as a general rule.
'* Horsey friends are friends who ride horses, not friends who look like horses. Except Tracy, she looks like a horse.
I have heard from horsey friends* that driving too slow past a horse is just as bad as too quickly – it unnerves them.
It's like a large predator creeping up on them.
The advice I was given when I drove a loud car was to slow down to 15-20, drop the clutch and take the foot off the gas and just coat past quietly.
Obviously there's some times this can't be done, but it's worked alright for me as a general rule.
'* Horsey friends are friends who ride horses, not friends who look like horses. Except Tracy, she looks like a horse.
doogz said:
pip t said:
Lots of stuff
Bang on.I used to occasionally drive out horse box, without a horse in it. The quad fitted quite nicely in the back, and for picking up large pieces of furniture, couches, wardrobes etc, it was quite handy.
I used to get odd looks, as i'd be driving the wheels off it.
Also, the horses at ours are pretty good on the road, generally not many of them are spooked too easily. But then, they are all used to seeing and hearing me, regularly, on a quad bike/in an Impreza/4x4/whatever else, so they're all pretty used to it all.
Edited by doogz on Thursday 29th September 15:29
king road. Why should everyone else be held up because you want a fragile pet? If a horse is that nervous that a car, bike, helicopter etc spooks it, then it is not the driver of the motor vehicle that is at fault. Surely you can see that it is not the brightest idea in the world to take a horse on to the road? If I took a dog out, and it ran out in to the road because I was unable to control it, and it then was hit by a car, that isn't the driver's fault. If I can't control my dog, then I shouldn't take it out near a live road.
Pip, if you had a toddler, say 15months old, and you knew that he/she didn't understand about cars etc, would you let him/her walk down a road (not on the pavement)? If the toddler then ran out in front of a car, would you blame the car driver whilst maintaining you were blameless? A nervous horse is in the same sort of unpredictable category as the toddler.
As I said before, just because you are ALLOWED, it doesn't make it the world's cleverest idea.
Opulent said:
doogz said:
pip t said:
Lots of stuff
Bang on.I used to occasionally drive out horse box, without a horse in it. The quad fitted quite nicely in the back, and for picking up large pieces of furniture, couches, wardrobes etc, it was quite handy.
I used to get odd looks, as i'd be driving the wheels off it.
Also, the horses at ours are pretty good on the road, generally not many of them are spooked too easily. But then, they are all used to seeing and hearing me, regularly, on a quad bike/in an Impreza/4x4/whatever else, so they're all pretty used to it all.
Edited by doogz on Thursday 29th September 15:29
king road. Why should everyone else be held up because you want a fragile pet? If a horse is that nervous that a car, bike, helicopter etc spooks it, then it is not the driver of the motor vehicle that is at fault. Surely you can see that it is not the brightest idea in the world to take a horse on to the road? If I took a dog out, and it ran out in to the road because I was unable to control it, and it then was hit by a car, that isn't the driver's fault. If I can't control my dog, then I shouldn't take it out near a live road.
Pip, if you had a toddler, say 15months old, and you knew that he/she didn't understand about cars etc, would you let him/her walk down a road (not on the pavement)? If the toddler then ran out in front of a car, would you blame the car driver whilst maintaining you were blameless? A nervous horse is in the same sort of unpredictable category as the toddler.
As I said before, just because you are ALLOWED, it doesn't make it the world's cleverest idea.
Snowboy said:
In the story a bit above about the horse that went nuts I wonder if the slow driving was the cause.
I have heard from horsey friends* that driving too slow past a horse is just as bad as too quickly – it unnerves them.
It's like a large predator creeping up on them.
The advice I was given when I drove a loud car was to slow down to 15-20, drop the clutch and take the foot off the gas and just coat past quietly.
Obviously there's some times this can't be done, but it's worked alright for me as a general rule.
'* Horsey friends are friends who ride horses, not friends who look like horses. Except Tracy, she looks like a horse.
Have to agree with you about going too slowly - my other half's horse seems happier if people go past at about 15-20 and a decent distance away.. I'm convinced someone was trying to hit her stirrup with their wing mirror once!I have heard from horsey friends* that driving too slow past a horse is just as bad as too quickly – it unnerves them.
It's like a large predator creeping up on them.
The advice I was given when I drove a loud car was to slow down to 15-20, drop the clutch and take the foot off the gas and just coat past quietly.
Obviously there's some times this can't be done, but it's worked alright for me as a general rule.
'* Horsey friends are friends who ride horses, not friends who look like horses. Except Tracy, she looks like a horse.
Opulent said:
Exactly my point (I was the one Pip extensively quoted). If an animal can handle it, then fine. No problem whatsoever. If a horse box can keep up with the flow of traffic, then fine. But, if the posh girly driving said horsebox can't handle it, then get out of the fking road. Why should everyone else be held up because you want a fragile pet?
If a horse is that nervous that a car, bike, helicopter etc spooks it, then it is not the driver of the motor vehicle that is at fault. Surely you can see that it is not the brightest idea in the world to take a horse on to the road? If I took a dog out, and it ran out in to the road because I was unable to control it, and it then was hit by a car, that isn't the driver's fault. If I can't control my dog, then I shouldn't take it out near a live road.
Pip, if you had a toddler, say 15months old, and you knew that he/she didn't understand about cars etc, would you let him/her walk down a road (not on the pavement)? If the toddler then ran out in front of a car, would you blame the car driver whilst maintaining you were blameless? A nervous horse is in the same sort of unpredictable category as the toddler.
As I said before, just because you are ALLOWED, it doesn't make it the world's cleverest idea.
Do you get upset about hearses and other slow moving vehicles?king road. Why should everyone else be held up because you want a fragile pet? If a horse is that nervous that a car, bike, helicopter etc spooks it, then it is not the driver of the motor vehicle that is at fault. Surely you can see that it is not the brightest idea in the world to take a horse on to the road? If I took a dog out, and it ran out in to the road because I was unable to control it, and it then was hit by a car, that isn't the driver's fault. If I can't control my dog, then I shouldn't take it out near a live road.
Pip, if you had a toddler, say 15months old, and you knew that he/she didn't understand about cars etc, would you let him/her walk down a road (not on the pavement)? If the toddler then ran out in front of a car, would you blame the car driver whilst maintaining you were blameless? A nervous horse is in the same sort of unpredictable category as the toddler.
As I said before, just because you are ALLOWED, it doesn't make it the world's cleverest idea.
A hearse, vintage car etc is a little bit quicker than a horse. And is far less unpredictable, and has no chance of freaking out, throwing it's driver off/out, and running off in a random direction...
Like I say, if a horse is comfortable with traffic then fine. No issues. It's the jumpy ones where the riders have a "sod everyone else, it's my RIGHT" attitude that cause the potential problems. It's just common sense.
Like I say, if a horse is comfortable with traffic then fine. No issues. It's the jumpy ones where the riders have a "sod everyone else, it's my RIGHT" attitude that cause the potential problems. It's just common sense.
Opulent said:
A hearse, vintage car etc is a little bit quicker than a horse. And is far less unpredictable, and has no chance of freaking out, throwing it's driver off/out, and running off in a random direction...
Like I say, if a horse is comfortable with traffic then fine. No issues. It's the jumpy ones where the riders have a "sod everyone else, it's my RIGHT" attitude that cause the potential problems. It's just common sense.
Sorry, I was referring to the comments about being held up by a horsebox, not the horse itself.Like I say, if a horse is comfortable with traffic then fine. No issues. It's the jumpy ones where the riders have a "sod everyone else, it's my RIGHT" attitude that cause the potential problems. It's just common sense.
From my experience riding different horses on the road over the years, some very placid and some definitely very much less so, there is a good way to drive around a horse and a bad way.
Horses aren't usually keen on anything sudden and fast moving, particularly if they can hear it but not see it. That might sound utterly obvious, but to some people they don't understand. It can be equally as bad to slow down too much, especially when approaching from behind, and take ages crawling past. The horse gets more and more nervy as they know you're there but get more anxious as you don't appear as quickly as they expect.
Generally I'd try to come down to a speed of 15-20mph in 3rd or 4th and pass, giving a wide birth, at a consistent speed. Don't feel too bad about holding the gear- as long as what you're doing is linear (and therefore more predictable) the horse is generally not going to freak out unless it's already having a moment.
Mum's horse used to be fine with boy racers flying past from all directions, but pass a black bin bag flapping in a hedge and she'd dance about like a spastic on ice.
Horses aren't usually keen on anything sudden and fast moving, particularly if they can hear it but not see it. That might sound utterly obvious, but to some people they don't understand. It can be equally as bad to slow down too much, especially when approaching from behind, and take ages crawling past. The horse gets more and more nervy as they know you're there but get more anxious as you don't appear as quickly as they expect.
Generally I'd try to come down to a speed of 15-20mph in 3rd or 4th and pass, giving a wide birth, at a consistent speed. Don't feel too bad about holding the gear- as long as what you're doing is linear (and therefore more predictable) the horse is generally not going to freak out unless it's already having a moment.
Mum's horse used to be fine with boy racers flying past from all directions, but pass a black bin bag flapping in a hedge and she'd dance about like a spastic on ice.
ExChrispy Porker said:
Sorry, I was referring to the comments about being held up by a horsebox, not the horse itself.
To be honest, I have very rarely come across a hearse on the road. I live and work out in the sticks and encounter horseboxes all the time - more often than not early mornings/late, and 25mph on NSL roads is just unneccesary, in my view. I don't run them off the road, flash my lights etc, but it's one of my main frustrations on the road. I grew up around horses - my aunt is fairly senior in a Horsey magazine - so I know how to behave, drive around them etc, but, much like cycling, there's a time and a place. Being right/having the right does not make you indestructible.
Well, it's over and done with. He got a solicitor who drives an MX5, whose brother-in-law had restored a TVR, and whose business partner is looking at buying a porsche or TVR; he knew his cars, and fought my son's corner well.
According to the 3 horse riders, my son flashed his lights repeatedly, pulled up, swore at them, and then drove off spinning his wheels for 'at least 3 seconds'. An independent witness said she saw a car spinning its wheels, and his car driving off at speed.
Firstly, if my son did spin his wheels, where are the number 11s on the road? Surely a 3 second tyre spin would leave considerable marks on the road? There are none, I've checked.
Secondly; the independent witness said she 'ran out of her caravan thinking there had been a crash' - her caravan is set back from the road by about 30-40 metres. If she ran out of her caravan to see the commotion, she must be one hell of a fast runner to see him 'spinning his wheels', if he only spun them for 3 seconds? It just doesn't fit together right. Also, the entrance to her drive is around 40 metres from the scene of the incident, set on the corner that my son had been accused of 'going too fast for'. He admits he drove off fairly quickly once he rounded the bend, but the horses were no longer in sight.
What makes it worse is that my son now realises he knows the brother of one of the horse riders, and the independent witness is a woman who he had returned her cat to after it nearly got run over in the middle of the road. Some thanks, eh?
According to the 3 horse riders, my son flashed his lights repeatedly, pulled up, swore at them, and then drove off spinning his wheels for 'at least 3 seconds'. An independent witness said she saw a car spinning its wheels, and his car driving off at speed.
Firstly, if my son did spin his wheels, where are the number 11s on the road? Surely a 3 second tyre spin would leave considerable marks on the road? There are none, I've checked.
Secondly; the independent witness said she 'ran out of her caravan thinking there had been a crash' - her caravan is set back from the road by about 30-40 metres. If she ran out of her caravan to see the commotion, she must be one hell of a fast runner to see him 'spinning his wheels', if he only spun them for 3 seconds? It just doesn't fit together right. Also, the entrance to her drive is around 40 metres from the scene of the incident, set on the corner that my son had been accused of 'going too fast for'. He admits he drove off fairly quickly once he rounded the bend, but the horses were no longer in sight.
What makes it worse is that my son now realises he knows the brother of one of the horse riders, and the independent witness is a woman who he had returned her cat to after it nearly got run over in the middle of the road. Some thanks, eh?
King Fisher said:
Stuff
Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here but does that mean it's been dropped? You make no mention of any further action!There are quite a lot of horses round where I live and most of the riders are courteous and polite, but there are quite a few who are not. If a horse is so nervous that it cannot tolerate the sound of an engine on tickover, then it has no place on the road, particularly with a learner rider on it. This happened to me recently when I pulled in to let some horses past and was told to turn my engine off, as the horses were nervous and some of the riders were beginners. That is to my mind completely irresponsible.
My main complaint about horse riders on the road though is the seemingly increasingly fashionable practice of taking a Jack Russell & a Lurcher with them, which they then have no control over when they meet other dogs (or traffic). Why does riding a horse set them beyond the rules governing keeping you dog under control?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff