Aftermarket HID and the Police.
Discussion
Noticing this more and more since I've started commuting including 15 miles on an unlit section of the A17.
Also why truckers feel the need to adorn their cab with 500000000000 coloured lights baffles me.
Its like being approached by some mutant Christmas tree.
O/T slightly, where's the best place to get bright haologen bulbs for my E36, the normal ones are pretty crap.
Also why truckers feel the need to adorn their cab with 500000000000 coloured lights baffles me.
Its like being approached by some mutant Christmas tree.
O/T slightly, where's the best place to get bright haologen bulbs for my E36, the normal ones are pretty crap.
onlynik said:
I must be the only person that is happy to see the police clamping down on this. Folk with incorrect lights dazzling other motorists, honestly I wish the fine was higher.
No you're not!I am sick to death of this. I refuse to fit these things if asked by my customers, and I explain why. If you have good eyesight the glare from these lamps is positively dangerous and leaves you temporarily blinded, particularly if they come towards you over the brow of a hill.
If you need headlamps that bright you shouldn't be driving at night, it's that simple.
J
littleredrooster said:
I'd be interested to know what the exact charge was on the sheet. AFAIK, there's no proven case law which stops HID conversions; the section lifted from the DfT's website is their opinion, not fact.
Here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...amccan10 said:
Just found out, the expensive way, that after market hids are illegal. Bugger
I cannot believe some people. This topic comes up every few months on almost every car forum. A few people will reply claiming they are great, look cool and they have never been stopped. Most replies though highlight that they are illegal and will annoy other road users. There are some people that only seem to listen to the replies that confirm the answer they want to hear.I just searched for HID kits in Google and the first 2 results have these disclaimers:
hids-direct.co.uk
"Please remember; it is your responsibility to ensure that the items purchased are suitable for your vehicle make/model and that the use of said items complies with all applicable laws in your Country. Please also note that under UK regulations HID kits are not yet approved road legal, this is because HID kits are not e-marked approved in their entirety. Until UK regulations are changed or up-dated our HID kits are sold for off road and show use only."
[url]hids4u.co.uk|http://www.hids4u.co.uk/terms.html[url]
"Please remember that it is your responsibility to ensure that the items purchased are suitable for your vehicle make/model and that the use of said items complies with all applicable laws in your Country. In the UK, fitting an aftermarket HID kit is not technically road legal as you are replacing a halogen bulb with an HID bulb, because of this the HID bulb cannot be E marked, which is a requirement for it to be road legal. Therefore our HID kits are sold for off-road use only."
I can't stand idiots who put HID kits in non-projector headlight assemblies. The glare from such installations is ridiculous.
IMO people in this country are just lazy idiots (and probably just don't know any better). In the US there is a big HID retro-fit scene, but it's done properly, by taking an HID projector and bulb assembly, and fitting/moulding the entire HID unit into the old headlight (take a look at something like HIDplanet.com for an idea).
IMO people in this country are just lazy idiots (and probably just don't know any better). In the US there is a big HID retro-fit scene, but it's done properly, by taking an HID projector and bulb assembly, and fitting/moulding the entire HID unit into the old headlight (take a look at something like HIDplanet.com for an idea).
sixspeed said:
I can't stand idiots who put HID kits in non-projector headlight assemblies. The glare from such installations is ridiculous.
IMO people in this country are just lazy idiots (and probably just don't know any better). In the US there is a big HID retro-fit scene, but it's done properly, by taking an HID projector and bulb assembly, and fitting/moulding the entire HID unit into the old headlight (take a look at something like HIDplanet.com for an idea).
They still wont be legal in the uk though as the entire light unit must be e markedIMO people in this country are just lazy idiots (and probably just don't know any better). In the US there is a big HID retro-fit scene, but it's done properly, by taking an HID projector and bulb assembly, and fitting/moulding the entire HID unit into the old headlight (take a look at something like HIDplanet.com for an idea).
saaby93 said:
What's the difference then if you have got projector lights - a lens in front of the bulb rather than a reflector behind it.
Why is it ok to replace those with HIDs?
I believe it is because the beam pattern will remain ok and you wont annoy people, and .... in the case of mine, it's rather difficult to tell the one's fitted with hid by BMW, against the one's that weren't.Why is it ok to replace those with HIDs?
I haven't fitted mine yet, as I got the wrong adaptors, and I'm a tad busy, but when I get around to it I'll let you know of the light output is better, and if the beam pattern is good.
If the beam pattern isn't good, they'll be coming off, but my mot tester says mine will pass the mot, so we'll see !
saaby93 said:
What's the difference then if you have got projector lights - a lens in front of the bulb rather than a reflector behind it.
Why is it ok to replace those with HIDs?
Its not ok, it'll need to be a complete head light conversion of a factory built unit.Why is it ok to replace those with HIDs?
from the dft website:
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Telephone: 020 7944 2078
Fax: 020 7944 2196
Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
Edited by amccan10 on Tuesday 22 November 11:26
saaby93 said:
What's the difference then if you have got projector lights - a lens in front of the bulb rather than a reflector behind it.
Why is it ok to replace those with HIDs?
There are three main types of headlight optics: refractor (opaque/patterned lens, traditional), reflector (clear/plano lens, fancy reflector), and projector (glass ball, mask behind it).Why is it ok to replace those with HIDs?
On refractor and reflector type headlights, the bulb is (at least partly) visible from the outside of the unit. This causes glare when an incorrect light source (ie: HID or wrong type of halogen lamp) is fitted, as not all light eminating from the unit is part of a controlled beam.
No such problems with projectors though, as their light output is wholly engineered - with a correspondingly sharper and better defined beam pattern.
Nigel Worc's said:
We had a discussion on here a couple of weeks ago, and I've bought some.
Mine are 8K, although I've not put them on yet (busy), but I have BMW projector lights, so after a LOT of discussion, some of us decided they are legal for me.
First up 8k is pretty blue and Secondly, they wont be legal.Mine are 8K, although I've not put them on yet (busy), but I have BMW projector lights, so after a LOT of discussion, some of us decided they are legal for me.
As folk have mentioned above, the beam will be a bit better in a projector lense than that of a normal reflector and make it a bit harder to spot) The fact of the matter is in the eyes of the law, they didnt come fitted to the car, wont have self levelling and washer jets.
The police will be dishing out fines for this left right and centre as 99% of the people who fit aftermarket kits go for a nice blue which stands out a mile compared to standard fit hid/xenon lamps.
Edited by SB10 on Tuesday 22 November 12:04
untakenname said:
Does this upcoming law deal with just HID lights or any other technology that isn't a filament bulb?
Within the past year or so LED lights have replaced HID as the main beam on off road mtb lights and motorbikes, I wonder if this law would apply to retrofitting LED's as well?
Wonder how MTB's fitted with HID's would be dealt with? Shirley, a pedal bike with these being used on the road would cause dazzling and or/distraction as much as a motorbike or car would.Within the past year or so LED lights have replaced HID as the main beam on off road mtb lights and motorbikes, I wonder if this law would apply to retrofitting LED's as well?
SB10 said:
Wonder how MTB's fitted with HID's would be dealt with? Shirley, a pedal bike with these being used on the road would cause dazzling and or/distraction as much as a motorbike or car would.
I think he means fitting LEDs to your car headlights. something like this:http://www.phoenixautobulbs.co.uk/sc/led-headlight...
not fitting hids to his bicycle
It seems to me that the plod are happy (Yet again) to help the government continue to overtax the motorist.
Yes these units may be illegal, but surely the better option would be to clamp down on their sale, rather than sting the poor bloke who fits them not actually knowing the status in law of the units.
As a retailer of the units, the motor factors who sell them should be deemed to be 'expert' in the items they are seeling, and on that basis should be well placed to tell the buyer that they are not legal for road use (as one of the extracts above does), and at least tell them not fit them to a road going vehicle.
What I feel should be happening is that someone like Trading Standards should be visiting retailers and clamping down on the source, rather than waiting until they are actually in use.
As an example, I was recently at the local factors, to buy replacement tail-light bulbs. Outside was a rather tasty looking Scooby, the owner of which was in the process of buying aftermarket HID's. In conversation I asked what was the advantage, to which I was told by the shopkeeper that they gave better road illumination. The asking price was into the hundreds, so pity the poor purhcaser if he wasn't also told he shouldn't be using them!
Yes these units may be illegal, but surely the better option would be to clamp down on their sale, rather than sting the poor bloke who fits them not actually knowing the status in law of the units.
As a retailer of the units, the motor factors who sell them should be deemed to be 'expert' in the items they are seeling, and on that basis should be well placed to tell the buyer that they are not legal for road use (as one of the extracts above does), and at least tell them not fit them to a road going vehicle.
What I feel should be happening is that someone like Trading Standards should be visiting retailers and clamping down on the source, rather than waiting until they are actually in use.
As an example, I was recently at the local factors, to buy replacement tail-light bulbs. Outside was a rather tasty looking Scooby, the owner of which was in the process of buying aftermarket HID's. In conversation I asked what was the advantage, to which I was told by the shopkeeper that they gave better road illumination. The asking price was into the hundreds, so pity the poor purhcaser if he wasn't also told he shouldn't be using them!
Caulkhead said:
I'm still interested to know what the offence code for this was. The DFT document isn't law and although any car fitted with HID's that doesn't have washers and self-leveling will definitely fail the MOT from Jan 2012, I wonder what the actual offence was?
Actually I beleive if you read the MOT rules it states "may be fitted with headlamp washers and self levelling systems" and the only listed failure is if the system is defective.So if your headlights pass the normal pattern tests, the manual levelling works and they DONT have either system, they cant fail it.
Badly adjusted lights, HID or otherwise are the real issue. My headlights are adjusted properly and have passed the mot for years. I recently got tugged for having non standard number plates fitted (my fault, bought with the car and vowed to change them but they beat me to it) but said nothing about the headlights which were on at the time.
Also the talk about levelling systems making a difference, they dont. All they just take the place of the manual wheel that the non xenon equiped cars have for adjusting for a heavy load in the rear.
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