Aftermarket HID and the Police.
Discussion
daz3210 said:
It seems to me that the plod are happy (Yet again) to help the government continue to overtax the motorist.
Yes these units may be illegal, but surely the better option would be to clamp down on their sale, rather than sting the poor bloke who fits them not actually knowing the status in law of the units.
We know that fitting and use is illegal, selling might not be. That's how retailers of road-illegal number plates get around it. In any case, I would expect import/sale would be more the remit of Trading Standards and HMRC, rather than plod.Yes these units may be illegal, but surely the better option would be to clamp down on their sale, rather than sting the poor bloke who fits them not actually knowing the status in law of the units.
matchmaker said:
amccan10 said:
The manufacturer is Ultra, 6000k H4 in the standard scooby headlights. £30. Fixed no points but still a pain in the ass
No. The pain in the ass is idiots like you going around blinding all and sundry with your crappy HID conversions! 
He admits he was ignorant of the legality (still being hotly disputed by others), paid his fine, changed back to the originals and said "but still a pain in the ass".
Since his 'problem', he has researched and and now appears to understand how to comply with the law, when he fits new lights.
Not sure how that qualifies him as an idiot exactly
Overly bright and/or illegal lights get a double
from me too.
Goaty Bill said:
Lets be a little bit fair to the OP here.
He admits he was ignorant of the legality (still being hotly disputed by others), paid his fine, changed back to the originals and said "but still a pain in the ass".
Since his 'problem', he has researched and and now appears to understand how to comply with the law, when he fits new lights.
Not sure how that qualifies him as an idiot exactly
Overly bright and/or illegal lights get a double from me too.
Thank you. He admits he was ignorant of the legality (still being hotly disputed by others), paid his fine, changed back to the originals and said "but still a pain in the ass".
Since his 'problem', he has researched and and now appears to understand how to comply with the law, when he fits new lights.
Not sure how that qualifies him as an idiot exactly
Overly bright and/or illegal lights get a double
from me too.spats said:
Badly adjusted lights, HID or otherwise are the real issue. My headlights are adjusted properly and have passed the mot for years. I recently got tugged for having non standard number plates fitted (my fault, bought with the car and vowed to change them but they beat me to it) but said nothing about the headlights which were on at the time.
That's the real issue for me too. Irrespective of headlight/bulb type, based on the number of vehicles I see, I#d say badly adjusted headlights is a far bigger/more dangerous problem. And that includes regular halogens and factory-fitted xenons too - Range Rovers and certain Mercs seem to be the worst for it in my experience.6000k is pushing it with colour choice in an HID kit. I don't know what the OP's reason for fitting a HID kit was in the first place, but if it was for more light output then it's an epic fail. Higher k number = less light output.
My Z4's halogen (projector) light output - even with uprated +80% bulbs - was pathetic, so I have a 4300k HID kit fitted. Light is very white and (I'm led to believe) is the same k value of most car manufacturer's OEM xenons. I'm very aware mine are illegal due to lack of self-levelling (although it has the other requirement: headlamp washers) but I've had the beam adjustment checked on several MOTs and it's always been perfect. On that basis I don't believe I blind other motorists any worse than other cars.
Edit - sorry I realise that middle paragraph was a bit harshly worded for the OP, if you were unaware of the law then fair enough. It just amuses me that some people fit the higher-k value lights "cos the want brighter lights"
Edited by a11y_m on Tuesday 22 November 13:55
Goaty Bill said:
rolando said:
onlynik said:
I must be the only person that is happy to see the police clamping down on this. Folk with incorrect lights dazzling other motorists, honestly I wish the fine was higher.
You're certainly not alone.I am totally and utterly pi$$ed off with the idiots who drive around dazzling other road users.
For example, yesterday evening, country B road, good visibility, I was nearly driven off the road by a f
king great truck with about 6 lights at normal level and at least that number again on top of the cab. All shining blue rather than white light.I doubt the driver's parentage.
Lighting is about safety for all drivers (and passengers), not just one person's improved vision and 'street cred'.
spats said:
Caulkhead said:
I'm still interested to know what the offence code for this was. The DFT document isn't law and although any car fitted with HID's that doesn't have washers and self-leveling will definitely fail the MOT from Jan 2012, I wonder what the actual offence was?
Actually I beleive if you read the MOT rules it states "may be fitted with headlamp washers and self levelling systems" and the only listed failure is if the system is defective.So if your headlights pass the normal pattern tests, the manual levelling works and they DONT have either system, they cant fail it.
Badly adjusted lights, HID or otherwise are the real issue. My headlights are adjusted properly and have passed the mot for years. I recently got tugged for having non standard number plates fitted (my fault, bought with the car and vowed to change them but they beat me to it) but said nothing about the headlights which were on at the time.
Also the talk about levelling systems making a difference, they dont. All they just take the place of the manual wheel that the non xenon equiped cars have for adjusting for a heavy load in the rear.
There's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
DAVEVO9 said:
amccan10 said:
The manufacturer is Ultra, 6000k H4 in the standard scooby headlights. £30. Fixed no points but still a pain in the ass
There is your problem..Edited by amccan10 on Monday 21st November 23:53
6k is too blue and that's what got you pulled!
HID kits in reflector headlights give too much glare.
But yeah 6k is too blue, and the guy above you with 8k? what are you thinking! OEM HID's are 4300K, its the sheer brightness compared to halogen, and the projector lenses that give the impression of a bluer light. In reality they are close in colour temp... White light. One is just brighter than the other.
Blue light is awful, especially in the dark and wet, it doesnt reflect off surfaces as well as white light. 5k is usually your best bet.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 22 November 14:24
Caulkhead said:
Perhaps you'd be good enough to post a link to the MOT rules that come into force in January 2012 for me to read?
There's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdfThere's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
Read it for yourself, its in the public domain and lets face it they have nothing to hide. Its there for everyone to read so you can self check your car and hopefully pass first time rather than have the problems of a retest.
a11y_m said:
My Z4's halogen (projector) light output - even with uprated +80% bulbs - was pathetic, so I have a 4300k HID kit fitted. Light is very white and (I'm led to believe) is the same k value of most car manufacturer's OEM xenons.
At least HIDs are standard on the Z4M.Unfortunately they don't light up the road very well due to the lights being set so low, and the angle having to be adjust so much to avoid dazzling other drivers.
They also bounce around much more than the aftermarket (main beam only) kit I had on my e34 M5s—which had self-levelling, and washers, and project lights—so probably would have gotten away with it even with the new MOT rules. Still stuck to 4300k though as to not draw undue attention.
The guy who fitted them for me has HIDs on his dip, main and fogs!
amccan10 said:
matchmaker said:
No. The pain in the ass is idiots like you going around blinding all and sundry with your crappy HID conversions!
I only posted up this topic for the benefit of others, like myself, that may be unaware of the legislation. not to be insulted by bellends on the forum. 
Unfortunately Andy, these people posting (being polite) are just tarring you with the same brush as those who have pissed them off with their bright
lights, they cant comprehend why a petrolhead who doesnt own a corsa with furry dice would want to upgrade their lights on the basis that
it was an improvement on the OEM lights and that they could be set up so as not to blind people, then subsequently found out, as you
have, that its not possible. Thanks for posting.
FFS guys, wind your necks back in and see the real reason for the OP's post.
spats said:
Caulkhead said:
Perhaps you'd be good enough to post a link to the MOT rules that come into force in January 2012 for me to read?
There's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdfThere's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
Read it for yourself, its in the public domain and lets face it they have nothing to hide. Its there for everyone to read so you can self check your car and hopefully pass first time rather than have the problems of a retest.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
Caulkhead said:
spats said:
Caulkhead said:
Perhaps you'd be good enough to post a link to the MOT rules that come into force in January 2012 for me to read?
There's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdfThere's an article in a recent edition of What Car? magazine that also states this along with this thread and many others.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
But like I say, if you have access to the new MOT rules, please share them.
Read it for yourself, its in the public domain and lets face it they have nothing to hide. Its there for everyone to read so you can self check your car and hopefully pass first time rather than have the problems of a retest.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
I'm going to assume the VOSA publication is more accurate and current than the AA especially as there have been a few MOT testers on similar threads (nd the one linked above) that reflect the VOSA publication, these are the people who will be doing the tests in Jan.
My problem though is i have HID's fitted to housings designed for them but they are still illegal because they don't have an e mark on them. so to be legal I have to bodge a H7 lamp into them with all the same problems in reverse for lights not designed for the bulb
amccan10 said:
matchmaker said:
No. The pain in the ass is idiots like you going around blinding all and sundry with your crappy HID conversions!
I only posted up this topic for the benefit of others, like myself, that may be unaware of the legislation. not to be insulted by bellends on the forum. 
Unless he only sets up dates with car owners who have proper HID's?
Caulkhead said:
If you look carefully on the VOSA 'What's New' page you will see the link you have posted is that of the 'Proposed MOT Inspection Manual', maybe the final version has more detail on the following:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
SO the AA are going to be more correct than the VOSA site when 2012 is barely a month away?http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
Plus whats on the AA site is the same information thats been posted up on practically every motoring site since the rumors began.
Personally I'm sticking with the advice on the link I gave. Theres more than one factory produced car out there with non levelling suspension and washers, but xenon lights. I doubt they have the power to make those cars illegal, if they did cars produced without seat belts would already be gone from the roads, but clearly they arent. Not long now to wait though...
Otispunkmeyer said:
Blue light is awful, especially in the dark and wet, it doesnt reflect off surfaces as well as white light. 5k is usually your best bet.
i would have thought that anything to the blue end of the visible spectrum would be bad. as far as i recall, the human eye is biased towards red light so anything under blue is not so easy to see. hence why red light is used for emergency lighting and also blue is associated with pron Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 22 November 14:24
iirc when in the early stages of nude acts, they were fine as long as they never moved, they performed under blue light as it was harder to see them move.aside from the safety and confusion issues then surely a bulb that was more red orientated would be better to see with at night / difficult conditions.
as an aside i take it i can still fit uprated bulbs to my car, its a land rover so the standard bulbs give out so little light, moths head for the stars rather than my headlights?
spats said:
Caulkhead said:
If you look carefully on the VOSA 'What's New' page you will see the link you have posted is that of the 'Proposed MOT Inspection Manual', maybe the final version has more detail on the following:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
SO the AA are going to be more correct than the VOSA site when 2012 is barely a month away?http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing...
Plus whats on the AA site is the same information thats been posted up on practically every motoring site since the rumors began.
Personally I'm sticking with the advice on the link I gave. Theres more than one factory produced car out there with non levelling suspension and washers, but xenon lights. I doubt they have the power to make those cars illegal, if they did cars produced without seat belts would already be gone from the roads, but clearly they arent. Not long now to wait though...
In order to be up to date you have to take the basic MOT manual you posted a link to and then add any addtional change documents such as 'Technical Pen Picture 3 - lighting':
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/technicalpen...
From this you may note in section 1.7:
"To keep the test up to date with modern technology, new checks have been added in respect of High Intensity Discharge (HID) and Light Emitting Diode (LED) lamps."
"Dazzle can also be caused if the lamps are dirty or aimed too high due to, for example, carrying rear seat passengers and/or heavy items in the boot. Vehicles with HID headlamps are therefore required to have a headlamp washing system (a wiper is not required) and be self levelling, which may be achieved either by the use of either headlamp or suspension levelling systems.The presence and operation of these headlamp cleaning and levelling devices has been added to the test. Therefore, if a mandatory headlamp levelling or cleaning device is missing, inoperative or otherwise obviously defective, the vehicle will fail.
This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems. Some high specification estate cars are fitted with a self-levelling suspension system and this would be considered as adequate for the purpose."
Don't expect to pass an MOT after December with aftermarket HID's.
jesta1865 said:
and also blue is associated with pron iirc when in the early stages of nude acts, they were fine as long as they never moved, they performed under blue light as it was harder to see them move.
I knew there was a reason for reading these forums. iirc when in the early stages of nude acts, they were fine as long as they never moved, they performed under blue light as it was harder to see them move.You learn something useful every day
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