Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[R0G]

109er said:

Re the above. I have a cat D1+E with the endorsement 119. This 119 endorsement throws a spanner in the
works as it state 'weight limit does not apply'

Weight limit does not apply means exactly that - there is no max weight limit for the licence but there will be for the vehicle

[Rosscow]

This new law regarding GVW and MAM combined not weighing more than 3500kg sucks.

Here I was thinking my Audi A6 Avant, with a kerb weight of 1905kg (plus say 150kg of luggage) would happily be able to tow a caravan with a MTPLM weight of 1400kg, giving a total combined weight of 3455kg.

But now I have to add the GVW and the MAM together!?

The GVW of my car being some 2325kg, meaning I can now only tow a caravan with a MAM of 1175kg?

What a crock of sh*t!

B+E at circa £500 now required

[R0G]

Rosscow said:

This new law regarding GVW and MAM combined not weighing more than 3500kg sucks.

Here I was thinking my Audi A6 Avant, with a kerb weight of 1905kg (plus say 150kg of luggage) would happily be able to tow a caravan with a MTPLM weight of 1400kg, giving a total combined weight of 3455kg.

But now I have to add the GVW and the MAM together!?

The GVW of my car being some 2325kg, meaning I can now only tow a caravan with a MAM of 1175kg?

What a crock of sh*t!

B+E at circa £500 now required

It is not a new law because it has been there since 1997

1175 is correct

Edited by R0G on Thursday 12th September 11:22

[Rosscow]

R0G said:

It is not a new law because it has been there since 1997

1175 is correct

Edited by R0G on Thursday 12th September 11:22

Sorry, I've just re-read your post above and they've just removed the kerb weight rule.

Still, their website is very unclear on this and I'm sure there must be a lot of people towing incorrectly.

Thanks for the heads-up!

[R0G]

Rosscow said:

Sorry, I've just re-read your post above and they've just removed the kerb weight rule.

Still, their website is very unclear on this and I'm sure there must be a lot of people towing incorrectly.

Thanks for the heads-up!

IMO there is a much simpler way of putting this ....

The extra rule for B licence towing of a trailer over 750 kgs plated MAM is ...

The vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM or MTPLM must not total more than 3500 kgs

[Rosscow]

Indeed.

Why they can't just include that on this page is beyond me: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence...

[R0G]

Rosscow said:

Indeed.

Why they can't just include that on this page is beyond me: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence...

That is also out of date because this was revoked on 19/01/2013 ....
a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle

[R0G]

R0G said:

IMO there is a much simpler way of putting this ....

The extra rule for B licence towing of a trailer over 750 kgs plated MAM is ...

The vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM or MTPLM must not total more than 3500 kgs

To add to that and put simply ....

Those that passed BOTH B and B+E after 19/01/2013 are restricted to trailers with a max MAM of 3500 kgs

To tow a trailer larger than 3500 kgs MAM the driver will need a C1+E


NOTE:- As most trailers are max 3500 MAM then this new rule will hardly affect any driver who passed both B and B+E after 19/01/2013

[Rosscow]

So if someone like me has passed their B test post 1997 but pre 2013, when they take their B+E post 2013 they won't be restricted to a 3500 MAM trailer?

[R0G]

Rosscow said:

So if someone like me has passed their B test post 1997 but pre 2013, when they take their B+E post 2013 they won't be restricted to a 3500 MAM trailer?

Correct but I bet you never need a trailer over 3500 MAM and if you do then it will need something like air brakes

[Rosscow]

R0G said:

Correct but I bet you never need a trailer over 3500 MAM and if you do then it will need something like air brakes

Interesting, thanks.

[HoggyR32]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'll give it a go.

Had a discussion with a workmate who says he can drive a lorry and trailer on his licence. To paint the picture, he has an lgv licence for rigid vehicles (C2 is it) and passed his test prior to 1997. What can he legally drive?

[R0G]

HoggyR32 said:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'll give it a go.

Had a discussion with a workmate who says he can drive a lorry and trailer on his licence. To paint the picture, he has an lgv licence for rigid vehicles (C2 is it) and passed his test prior to 1997. What can he legally drive?

B
BE no weight restrictions
C1
C1E 107 = max total MAM of 8250 kgs (7500 GVW + 750 kgs MAM trailer or perhaps 6000 GVW + 2250 MAM trailer)
C with max trailer of 750 kgs MAM
D1 101 = not for hire or reward
D1E 101 = not for hire or reward

[mph1977]

Rosscow said:

R0G said:

Correct but I bet you never need a trailer over 3500 MAM and if you do then it will need something like air brakes

Interesting, thanks.

the 3500kg limit for overrun braking is well established

im not sure what the UK position on US style 'electric braking' for trailers is ...

[Slow]

mph1977 said:

the 3500kg limit for overrun braking is well established

im not sure what the UK position on US style 'electric braking' for trailers is ...

Dont think the us have very many towing rules.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:AN...

[R0G]

[300bhp/ton]

R0G said:

Thanks very interesting. But what exactly does this really mean?

From my understanding it is saying "all" B licence holders have the same restrictions, as in no difference in what year you obtained it (all post 1996).

But more interestingly it seems to be implying that a trailer MAM can now be heavier than the tow vehicles mass (however they are defining mass)??

Is this assumption correct?



To help me visualise this. If for example you had tow vehicle such as a Land Rover at 1600kg kerb weight with a tow rating of 3500kg.

And a trailer with a a MAM of 1900kg. Previously you couldn't tow this on a B licence due to the trailer MAM exceeding the vehicle weight, but now according your letter you can?

[R0G]

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks very interesting. But what exactly does this really mean?

From my understanding it is saying "all" B licence holders have the same restrictions, as in no difference in what year you obtained it (all post 1996).

But more interestingly it seems to be implying that a trailer MAM can now be heavier than the tow vehicles mass (however they are defining mass)??

Is this assumption correct?



To help me visualise this. If for example you had tow vehicle such as a Land Rover at 1600kg kerb weight with a tow rating of 3500kg.

And a trailer with a a MAM of 1900kg. Previously you couldn't tow this on a B licence due to the trailer MAM exceeding the vehicle weight, but now according your letter you can?

All means ALL so all those with only a B licence and towing with it are under the same laws/rules

Yes, the trailer MAM can now be heavier than the towing vehicle but for B licence towing that is going to be a rarity under the total MAM rule

Your landy at 1600 kerb would be about 2100 GVW so 3500 minus 2100 = 1400 max for the trailer MAM

[300bhp/ton]

Thanks.

So in theory, if you could find a vehicle with a MAM of say 1700kg and a tow rating of 2000kg and a trailer with a MAM of 1800kg, then the combined MAM's would be 3500kg, but you could realistically tow an 1100-1200kg car on a trailer on a B licence?

[R0G]

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks.

So in theory, if you could find a vehicle with a MAM of say 1700kg and a tow rating of 2000kg and a trailer with a MAM of 1800kg, then the combined MAM's would be 3500kg, but you could realistically tow an 1100-1200kg car on a trailer on a B licence?

Yes - but try to find a vehicle with a 1700 GVW and a towing capacity of 1800 because I do not think there is one - waits to be corrected !