Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Discussion
mph1977 said:
Super Slo Mo said:
Your Vivaro towing weight is, if I remember correctly, 2,000 kg's. It's rare to get vans that have towing weights that are greater than this, unless their own GVW is over 3,500 kg's.
The towing figure must be available somewhere.
which will be the 4970 on the vehicle ID plate The towing figure must be available somewhere.
there should be 4 Masses on the vehicle plate
axle 1 , axle 2 , MAM , MTM
axle 1 +axle 2 will be slightly in excess of the MAM ( for 3500 kg vans typically the permissible axle masses add up to about 3800)
and the final figure 4970 in the case of the Vivaro is the Max Train Mass i.e. MAM of both vehicle and trailer.
If actual weights are considered an empty van weighing approx 1700kg plus the 2000kg max towing weight means that the MTM would be significantly less. Read somewhere that VOSA says you can tow up to vehicle MTM.
Edited by Xpuffin on Monday 18th August 19:31
Xpuffin said:
So the max towing weight overrides the MTM? Or is the max towing weight determined by subtracting the MAM from the MTM which conveniently adds up to 2000kg.
I always understood it to be a design thing. When you're buying new vans, this kind of thing is on the spec list. Last time I bought vans, which admittedly was a few years back, the maximum towing weight I could find on any van under 3.5 tonnes was 2,000 kg. I don't know whether in practice this is just a number added onto the MAM, and in fact you can actually tow a heavier trailer if your van is not fully laden. R0G on here might know.
Super Slo Mo said:
Xpuffin said:
So the max towing weight overrides the MTM? Or is the max towing weight determined by subtracting the MAM from the MTM which conveniently adds up to 2000kg.
I always understood it to be a design thing. When you're buying new vans, this kind of thing is on the spec list. Last time I bought vans, which admittedly was a few years back, the maximum towing weight I could find on any van under 3.5 tonnes was 2,000 kg. I don't know whether in practice this is just a number added onto the MAM, and in fact you can actually tow a heavier trailer if your van is not fully laden. R0G on here might know.
I can find no reference to an official max towing weight in my handbook but I do have a MTW plated.
More confused than before.
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weig...
Super Slo Mo said:
Your Vivaro towing weight is, if I remember correctly, 2,000 kg's. It's rare to get vans that have towing weights that are greater than this, unless their own GVW is over 3,500 kg's.
The towing figure must be available somewhere.
Just found this.The towing figure must be available somewhere.
http://www.barlowtrailers.com/PDF/VOSA-Trailer-Wei...
There is a weight plate hidden in the vehicle usually under the bonnet or in a door frame
It has 4 weights on that plate
The top weight is the GVW
the second is the GTW
Take GVW from GTW and you have the max towing capacity - that is not always the case as the towing capacity might be more but it will be at least that figure
If the plated MAM of a trailer is more than the towing capacity then use the towing capacity as the max weight for a loaded trailer
It has 4 weights on that plate
The top weight is the GVW
the second is the GTW
Take GVW from GTW and you have the max towing capacity - that is not always the case as the towing capacity might be more but it will be at least that figure
If the plated MAM of a trailer is more than the towing capacity then use the towing capacity as the max weight for a loaded trailer
R0G said:
There is a weight plate hidden in the vehicle usually under the bonnet or in a door frame
It has 4 weights on that plate
The top weight is the GVW
the second is the GTW
Take GVW from GTW and you have the max towing capacity - that is not always the case as the towing capacity might be more but it will be at least that figure
If the plated MAM of a trailer is more than the towing capacity then use the towing capacity as the max weight for a loaded trailer
Thanks, but that doesn't follow the advice given in the VOSA memo I linked, in his memo he suggests a combo can operate up to MTW plated and not just GVW-GTW.It has 4 weights on that plate
The top weight is the GVW
the second is the GTW
Take GVW from GTW and you have the max towing capacity - that is not always the case as the towing capacity might be more but it will be at least that figure
If the plated MAM of a trailer is more than the towing capacity then use the towing capacity as the max weight for a loaded trailer
I may be misinterpreting this but it's something I really do need to understand and there seems to be a whole load of conflicting information on this subject.
Edited by Xpuffin on Monday 18th August 20:47
R0G said:
Xpuffin said:
Thanks, but that doesn't follow the advice given in the VOSA memo I linked, if the vehicle max towing capacity isn't listed what assumption can you make.
If no towing capacity is listed then the GTW can be used by the driver as they see fit
Having checked both my handbook and all Vauxhall generated information I can find no reference to an official max towing weight, just GTW. All the non official sites must just be subtracting to come up with the figure of 2000kgSo given the plate here
Can I assume that I can legally tow under the following conditions.
Van weight 1590 + wet weight and driver 1790.
Trailer weight 595
Vehicle 1890
(Trailer MAM2600 Brian James blue4)
Appreciate your input
Edited by Xpuffin on Monday 18th August 21:12
The only slight issue with that is that your trailer is significantly heavier than the towing vehicle in this scenario as I read it from your post.
This might lead to problems with stability. I know for amateurs towing caravans, and thus allowing for relatively inexperienced drivers, the generally accepted recommendation is that the trailer should weigh less than the towing vehicle.
This, of course, isn't a hard and fast rule, and most decent sized 4x4's can happily tow a 3.5 tonne trailer on the road, so I guess it comes down to your own personal experience and ability.
This might lead to problems with stability. I know for amateurs towing caravans, and thus allowing for relatively inexperienced drivers, the generally accepted recommendation is that the trailer should weigh less than the towing vehicle.
This, of course, isn't a hard and fast rule, and most decent sized 4x4's can happily tow a 3.5 tonne trailer on the road, so I guess it comes down to your own personal experience and ability.
Super Slo Mo said:
The only slight issue with that is that your trailer is significantly heavier than the towing vehicle in this scenario as I read it from your post.
This might lead to problems with stability. I know for amateurs towing caravans, and thus allowing for relatively inexperienced drivers, the generally accepted recommendation is that the trailer should weigh less than the towing vehicle.
This, of course, isn't a hard and fast rule, and most decent sized 4x4's can happily tow a 3.5 tonne trailer on the road, so I guess it comes down to your own personal experience and ability.
A well made point, I've been towing on and off most of my driving life. I certainly have had my fair share of moments, each one a learning experience.This might lead to problems with stability. I know for amateurs towing caravans, and thus allowing for relatively inexperienced drivers, the generally accepted recommendation is that the trailer should weigh less than the towing vehicle.
This, of course, isn't a hard and fast rule, and most decent sized 4x4's can happily tow a 3.5 tonne trailer on the road, so I guess it comes down to your own personal experience and ability.
Loading is key.
It can depend on the vehicle. I had experience of towing a trailer weighing more than 3 tonnes with a 200tdi Discovery (no anti roll bars), and it was horrific at anything more than 50 mph, it would just weave all over the road, and get worse if you didn't slow down.
Behind a Series II Disco though, it was as good as gold. It wasn't bad behind a 300 model Disco either, although that had uprated rear springs and anti roll bars front and back.
Behind a Series II Disco though, it was as good as gold. It wasn't bad behind a 300 model Disco either, although that had uprated rear springs and anti roll bars front and back.
Will keep a copy of this in the van from now on.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Xpuffin said:
Will keep a copy of this in the van from now on.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Apart from the usefull info on the vin plate it's not a lot of use and tells you very littlehttps://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Skylinecrazy said:
Hi, looking to tow a fisher fury race car with a mondeo estate 1.9 turbo diesel. Trailer is a Brian James twin axle trailer and car weighs circa 500kg. Is this legal on a car licence? Had my licence 5 years.
Tia
Find these 2 figuresTia
Car GVW
Trailer plated MAM
Then add them together
If they total more than 3500 then it needs B+E
Actual weights are not needed for licencing - needs plated weights
which is your car - http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasi...
which is your trailer - http://www.brianjames.co.uk/pdf/blue_transporterwe...
R0G said:
Being legal and being safe can often be in contradiction
something may be legal but if not safe then who would choose to do it?
True, but taking a broader view, and not just relating it to cars, there are plenty of things that are legal but not safe, some bordering on downright dangerous that we choose to do. Or at least, some of us do. It can be quite exciting to pursue dangerous activities, hence why people do daft things like sky diving, free climbing, base jumping etc.something may be legal but if not safe then who would choose to do it?
There are degrees of safety based on your own perception of risk too, for some, motorcycling is not safe enough, for others it's perfectly fine.
However, going back to the topic at hand, towing a trailer that's legal but that's trying it's best to dominate the car is not a particularly fun experience, although that said, getting through it unscathed is a little exhilarating
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